Ep. 155 Brave Enough to Choose Joy with Shannon Donohoe-Simpson

[00:00:06] I'm Michele Simms and this is The Beauty in the Mess, a community where people who crave a shift in mindset, personal growth, and connection to like-minded people come together to start rewriting their stories. Through engaging, honest, and insightful conversations, the show will help you embrace the mess to recognize the meanings and the lessons it holds and discover its hidden treasures to help you start making a mindset shift. Let's listen, learn, and reclaim who we were meant to be.

[00:00:33] Hi friend, welcome to The Beauty in the Mess. Today's conversation is one that stayed with me long after we stopped recording. My guest is Shannon Donohoe-Simpson, a TEDx speaker, educator, storyteller, and self-proclaimed joy bringer. But her message isn't about joy that came from an easy life. It was forged through some of life's most difficult experiences, including childhood trauma, a battle with aggressive breast cancer at age 34,

[00:01:00] parenting children through some significant challenges, and rebuilding her life after divorce. What I love about Shannon's perspective is that she doesn't believe joy is something we find once life finally gets easier. She believes joy is something we choose, even in the middle of grief, uncertainty, and pain. In this episode, we talk about emotional healing, people-pleasing, authenticity, the connection between emotional and physical health,

[00:01:26] learning to trust yourself, and why some of life's greatest challenges can ultimately become our greatest teachers. Shannon shares her personal journey with incredible honesty and vulnerability, reminding us that healing isn't about becoming someone new. It's about coming home to who we've always been. Shannon. This is a conversation about courage, resilience, and finding beauty even in life's hardest seasons. Hi, I'm Michele Simms, your host. I'm just a regular person who, like so many, has faced my fair share of messes.

[00:01:54] Life hasn't always been neat or easy, but it's taught me a lot. And somewhere along the way, I got deeply curious. How do other people make it through their messes and not just survive, but thrive? That started my pursuit. I started searching for stories, wisdom, and real strategies, not only for myself, but for anyone looking for a better way forward. Maybe there's a faster way, a softer way, a more human way, and maybe we don't have to figure it out all alone.

[00:02:21] I believe we grow through shared stories, lived wisdom, and the beautiful mess of being human. So welcome to the conversation. I'm so glad you're here. If you're here, please join me for episode 155 of the The Beauty in the Mess called Brave Enough to Choose Joy with Shannon Donohoe-Simpson. So without further ado, let's get into it. Hi, Shannon. Welcome to the Beauty and the Mess. I'm so glad to have you with me today. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here. Awesome.

[00:02:50] Now, I know you're a TEDx speaker and an educator and a joy bringer, as you call yourself, among many, many other things. But before we kind of start digging into all that, I was wondering if you could tell us some of your background story. Like, what has, and I know life is huge and has many aspects, but what has led you down the path that you're currently on, do you think?

[00:03:14] Well, there's been many parts, but I think the one story that jumps out for me the most is there was a moment that I was sitting in my first circle ever at the Kalanish Society, which is an organization that facilitates week-long retreats for people with cancer. And I remember sitting in this circle, and as people were starting to open up and share their stories about how cancer had been impacting their lives,

[00:03:41] I remember sitting there and thinking, oh my goodness, I'm not actually here to heal my cancer. I'm here to heal the wounds that caused my cancer. Oh, wow. And I remember this one woman, I mean, I can see her so clearly. She had really funky hair and super colorful outfits. And when it was her turn to speak, she started to share her story of sexual abuse. And I remember in that moment just being like, oh my goodness.

[00:04:11] It just really like hit me hard. And when it was my turn to speak, for the first time I spoke out loud about the sexual abuse that I experienced at the hands of my grandfather. And it was in that moment that I realized that the secrets that I had been keeping in my body had made me sick.

[00:04:38] And growing up in a house where I was told to be seen and not heard and be a good little girl, there wasn't a lot of room for sharing these stories or there wasn't room to share these stories. And holding onto that in my body had brought me to that moment.

[00:05:02] And never in my life before had I sort of been opened to this idea that the physical body and the emotional mental body was interconnected. And all of a sudden, things just made so much sense to me. Wow. So how do you go from that to trying to heal yourself?

[00:05:28] I mean, because from what I've studied myself or read, a lot of us carry trauma, maybe not the same trauma you went through by any means, but a lot of us carry trauma from childhood. And I hear that we don't fully release it. So how do you release it? Well, I mean, everybody has their own ways of doing that. I mean, I've sat in many counseling sessions. I have sat in many, many women's circles.

[00:05:57] I even used plant medicine. I've done energy work. I've done all sorts of different things to help heal my body. But my favorite thing right now is actually dancing. Oh, wow. I do a lot of, I have a daily practice of like literally putting on some music and dancing in my kitchen. And it's just an incredible practice of really moving through our emotions.

[00:06:26] Because our emotions are not actually something that we need to be afraid of, because they only actually last for a whole 90 seconds if we give them permission to move. And so this has been a big part of my journey is to learn how to express my emotions in a healthy way. I wonder if you, like, I feel like society kind of teaches us to hide our emotions, to suppress.

[00:06:55] Do you feel that also? Oh, gosh. A thousand percent. Absolutely. Especially our men, especially our young boys. They're told to like suck it up and be strong and don't be a cry boy or don't be a cry baby. And these emotions are not meant to be suppressed. They are meant to be moved. But again, not only are we told to suppress our emotions or not encouraged to express our emotions,

[00:07:25] there isn't a lot of education around healthy ways to do that. So it's like, okay, I want to express my emotions maybe if we get to that point. But then there isn't a lot of tools around that. I think, I mean, if we talk about education in the school system, I think there's been so many things that have missed. I think we should be speaking about kindness and respect

[00:07:51] and all the incredible important values that we should be bringing to the table every day. And then what about like financial education? And what about emotional regulation? What about learning what it means to have a regulated nervous system and the tools that come along with that, let alone, I mean, so many things that I feel like the school system. I mean, don't get me wrong, math, science, all the things, English, it's important,

[00:08:20] but they aren't the basic skills that get us through everyday life. Yeah, I agree. There should be some kind of life class that teaches you some of these foundational, because I think you see the gap even more today than you did years and years ago. Oh, yeah. The kids are just left to their own accord. And it's a child trying to process sometimes adult things. Oh, yeah. There's just so much going on,

[00:08:48] especially now with both parents having to be out of the home and working to try and provide all the necessities with all the different sports and the activities and the trips and all the things that society has put on us that we should provide for our kids. I think we could go down a very big rabbit hole here for quite a while. For sure. Yeah. This is maybe an odd question. I don't know.

[00:09:16] But do you feel like some of the issue is that because of, I call it programming, I feel like we've been programmed to do, to act certain ways or to hide emotions or whatever. But do you feel like us giving ourselves permission to not do what we've been taught or not do what we've been programmed to do? Do you think that's one of the hardest hurdles is just giving yourself permission to say, it's okay to go this way or do that?

[00:09:46] Well, you're speaking my language. Oh, I feel like I've been the black sheep of my family my whole life. I've never, ever followed the path. I've always, if something didn't feel right to me, my intuition has always been really strong. And it hasn't made me a lot of friends sometimes, but I don't think we're supposed to be on this planet to do what everybody else tells us to do. This is our life. This is, we're here on this planet.

[00:10:16] It's when we get to our funeral on the end of the day, it's our job to make sure that we've lived our best life. I'm not here living life for everybody else. I want to live my best life. And so being authentic, which is one of the things that I love to speak about authenticity and being our real, honest, vulnerable, naked self.

[00:10:43] That is for me what being on this planet is all about being real. Because when we aren't, because I've done it, I've lived it. But when we're making everybody else happy, we just end up being super resentful. I'll tell you a story. So when I was, we were just getting ready. We were just actually coming home from a trip across Canada where we had, the four of us,

[00:11:12] my family and I, we had decided we were going to take two months and go across Canada and come back. And when I got home, the, my foot had been in so much pain for well over a year. And it was getting to the point where I didn't even know what I was going to do anymore. Like I was having a really hard time walking. And this was a big deal because I was three weeks away from hiking the West Coast trail,

[00:11:38] which is seven days and six nights, nonstop every single day, carrying 42 pounds on your back, like a big deal. And I remember getting ahold of a practitioner and she did energy work and massage. And I'd never worked with her before, but I didn't care at this point. I was super desperate. And I ended up on her massage table two days later. And next thing you know, she was looking me in the eye and she said, Shannon, you're full of resentment.

[00:12:08] And I was just like, oh. And I just remember being like, oh my goodness, like she's right. Like I'm literally full of resentment. And next thing you know, that same week, two other practitioners, I was on a mission, two other practitioners said the exact same thing to me. And I remember walking into my massage appointment with my friend, Daryl. And I said, Daryl, my foot is still so unhappy.

[00:12:37] And he looked at me and he said, Shannon, he goes, is it your foot that's unhappy or you that's unhappy? Oh, wow. And I was like, oh. And I just remember the tears just starting to flow down my face. And that session, I released so much emotion, so much anger, so much came out of my body

[00:13:03] that day that I hiked the West Coast Trail three weeks later with no pain. Wow. I literally released so much pent up emotion that was being stored in my body that was all manifesting into the physical ailment, which brings me full circle right back to the story I told you about my cancer and the childhood trauma not ever being expressed, which then

[00:13:32] led to me being diagnosed with cancer. And so what I'm learning, and Gabor Maté talks a lot about this. I don't know if Gabor Maté, one of the very first books I read was When the Body Says No. And that just articulates so beautifully how what we hold on to can manifest. And so now when things don't feel right in my body, I know that it's not necessarily something

[00:14:02] that I've done, that I tweaked or I've hurt. It's something that I'm holding on to. And it brings me full circle back to my favorite thing that I love to do in my practice of every single day is dancing. I love to dance. And that means I literally just put on the Spotify in my kitchen and I move through whatever emotion needs to be transmuted that day, whether it's grief, whether it's sadness, whether

[00:14:28] it's anger, whether it's just I'm wanting to feel the joy because the most joyful thing that I embody and experience is dancing. And so everybody has their tools for moving emotion. But absolutely. It's definitely a skill or a tool that I think should be practiced every single day in the school system. I think you're right.

[00:14:54] So what do you think, like if you have a person that's say a people pleaser, but they don't feel the resentment or they don't think they do, what can they do to break free from all this, to break free from that people pleasing aspect? Yeah, it's an ongoing practice because when we have done this our whole lives, I remember

[00:15:21] sitting in my counselor's office and I was like 26 years old. It was the first time I ever sat down with a counselor. And I remember saying, Jean, why does this take so long? Like, why is, why can't I just break out of this practice that this I've done this my whole life, but it's hard to break out of this. And it's exactly what she said. She goes, Shannon, you've been doing this for 26 years. You're not going to just transition over, over time.

[00:15:49] And so for me, it was having a practice of journaling, making sure that I was going to talk to somebody when I needed to. For me, it was also joining women's groups and sitting in women's groups and learning from all the other women and what they shared out loud. There's something so powerful when you sit in a women's group and you see all these heads

[00:16:16] nodding and you're like, oh my goodness, I'm not alone. I think that's part of the thing too. For me, I was really believed that I was the only one going through all these things in the parts of my journey. I would be like, man, am I the only one that thinks this way? Or am I the only one going through this? And then you find yourself in a group and you realize that you're not the only one.

[00:16:44] And so first of all, the number one thing is just having awareness, being aware of when we're people pleasing and when we're feeling that resentment. And that's partly about being in our body. Like when for me, I used to keep really busy, busy, busy, busy, busy. So if I was super busy, then I could avoid, then I could pretend that everything was fine.

[00:17:14] And then I didn't have to feel any feelings. True. But when we slow down and we give ourselves permission to have space, whether that's, again, creating the space to journal or creating the space to go down and watch the sunset and just be with ourselves or going to a counselor, like we're sitting in a women's circle.

[00:17:37] It's like creating that space to actually be aware of the things that we do repetitively without even actually knowing it. But again, part of that is just being aware that, okay, like I, I people please, and I'm feeling a lot of resentment right now, and this isn't working for me.

[00:18:04] And then being able to speak our truth out loud to maybe who it is that we need to say this to, maybe it's our partner, maybe it's our family. Maybe we need to do less for the kids and a little bit more for ourselves. I mean, I spent a huge chunk of my motherhood doing all the things for my kids. And I wouldn't change a thing because I am here where I am today.

[00:18:34] Because of everything that's unfolded. But as a mother, if I could give some words of wisdom to upcoming mothers, I would say, fill your cup, fill your cup. Because when your cup is full, you can fill other people's cup. But when you're filling everybody else's cup and you're angry and you're resentful, are you really filling their cup?

[00:19:04] True. And I had to learn that the hard way. And I went through a divorce in the last two years. And man, the hardest thing that I've ever done. And having the last two years to be with myself and reflect on the parts that I could have done better and the ways that I could have shown up better. I mean, again, I can't change what is.

[00:19:32] And I'm not going to beat myself up for what I didn't know back then. But I definitely can pause, reflect, and know that I get to choose to do things differently moving forward. I think it's also not what you went through to get to this point by any means. But it's a blessing to have the time and the ability to sit with yourself and reflect on things.

[00:19:58] Because I think a lot of us, we get so caught up in everyday life, whether it's kids or grandkids. And I hear people going to every grandkids game. And we just don't make time for stuff like that. We just really don't as a society, I don't think. Unless you're forced to or you're in a situation where you just get that time. Well, and I think it comes back to choice. Oh, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. It is a choice.

[00:20:26] When I was 34 years old, I found myself diagnosed with cancer, triple negative breast cancer, which is a really aggressive form of cancer. Wow. My husband had two broken hands at the time. My twins were one years old. And my son was diagnosed with autism while I was in the middle of chemo. Wow. And I just remember thinking, God, I can't take anymore.

[00:20:56] You know, that saying, God only gives you what you can handle. And I was just like, God, I don't know what your plan is, but I think you've given me more than I can handle. And it's amazing what we can move through. Really, I'm when I reflect back, I don't even know how, but we do it. We just do it.

[00:21:19] But when we find ourselves in these places, a pause, because that's what cancer was. It was a forced pause. And maybe people will disagree with me on this, but I do believe that when we find ourselves sick or in an accident or something has forced us to pause in our lives, it is not by mistake. Right.

[00:21:48] It is the universe knocking saying, pay attention, pay attention because you're being, you're so busy that you're going to get really sick. And this is your opportunity to make change. And that was my 34 year old self.

[00:22:12] And I was had was forced for over a year to literally be with myself. And I had to look inward. I had to pay attention. And that's when I found myself going to these different retreats with the Kalanish Society. And then I drove out to Vancouver from the Langley Surrey area, which was about an hour's drive.

[00:22:40] And I would sit in circle every single Wednesday night for almost two years with the young adults with cancer. And it was such a transformational time of my life. Not only to be witnessed, but also to witness others going through some of the darkest days of their lives, because all of a sudden the little things in life didn't matter anymore. And I didn't need to be busy doing all the stupid little things anymore.

[00:23:10] Right. Because I got to actually be here on this planet and I got to be alive. Very true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have our own autonomy, of course, as adults. But I do think we're taught to ignore things. My husband had cancer a couple of times. And I remember he was sick. My daughter had to have brain surgery. He ended up getting a brain tumor at that point.

[00:23:38] They both had to have brain surgery within nine months of each other. I don't know. It was way too close for me. I couldn't handle it. Wow. And if somebody would come up and say, how are you doing? I would just fall to pieces. But I would tell myself every day, I'm doing it. I'm making it. I'm still going to work. I'm still functioning. Because mentally I can function under high stress. But what I didn't realize is what I was doing to my body.

[00:24:03] And I didn't realize that till later on when stuff started going wrong. I was like, it finally hit me. It's like, wow. Yeah. Mentally, I thought I was doing okay. But my body was not handling the stress well at all. So if you don't listen, your body will end up telling you one way or another. Yeah. It absolutely does. It absolutely does.

[00:24:27] And we're in this society that is like all wrapped up and around what you can produce and what you can do and all the things. And I'm guilty. I get mixed up in it too sometimes. And then all of a sudden I'm just like, I got to pull back and just reassess and remind myself it's not about proving. It's not about doing. It's not about producing.

[00:24:51] It's about being here and following the joy back to what we were talking about at the beginning. Like this is why we're here. We're here to experience the fullness of this life. And that's joy. And so when we're doing the things that bring us joy, then the rest of the stuff just unfolds effortlessly.

[00:25:16] When we go through these really hard things in life, I think it's to remind us what's important, which brings us full circle back to joy. And that's what's important. Whatever that is for you, whether it's spending time with family, whether it's dancing, whether it's being in nature and making sure that we carve out little moments in our lives to make sure that we're doing those things that bring us joy.

[00:25:45] So, I mean, I'm sure when you are going through all the things with your daughter and your husband. And I mean, maybe, I mean, for me, I made sure that I carved out time in my day to do the things that brought me joy, because that is what actually helped me get through that really difficult time. Yeah, that's something I was going to ask about, because for me, I don't think I did, if I'm honest.

[00:26:11] And it's because I think there's a lot of when you're watching people you love go through these things and you're other than taking them to a doctor's appointment or helping them lay down or whatever you're assisting. But you can't stop what's happening, of course. And then you feel like if you take a moment for yourself. I don't know. For me, I felt guilt. Like, how dare me do this when she's in pain and this is happening or he's in?

[00:26:38] And I think that's another struggle is just, again, it's allowing yourself to know that it's OK to do this. But we've been taught that it's selfish. And I even had a person tell me that because I was going back to school and he's like, do you realize how selfish that is? And I was like, wow, going back to school is selfish. That's a big projection. Yeah. So it's hard. And so how do you block out those voices?

[00:27:05] How do you retrain yourself that it is OK? Yeah. For me, it's just a practice. OK. And surrounding myself with people that celebrate me and having my journal and writing in it often every day and knowing that when I'm living my best life, I am the best service for the other people around me.

[00:27:29] And for the other people that maybe disagree, that's OK. We're not, again, here to please everybody. But by thinking about, for example, like with my kids now, I mean, they're 18 now. I wish that I knew the tools that I have now back then.

[00:27:51] But had I known about taking care of myself and filling my cup, I could have been a way better regulated mother. And I would have been able to serve them way better as a mother. I mean, I can't change them. I still wasn't a great mother in many ways. But I know I could have done a better job. I'm going to be an amazing grandma. My kids are like, yeah, wait, not now. But this is the thing.

[00:28:21] We can't allow the voices of other people to dictate us because, again, it's about our choices and us being happy. And if that person wants to believe that that's selfish of you to go back to school, that's their own story and their own beliefs. So you can just go, well, thanks for sharing your opinion, but that's your opinion.

[00:28:45] And I have other, I have my own belief, which is that when I take care of myself and love myself and fill up my own cup, I'm actually better service for the people that I love me or that I love. I'm better service for them when I take care of myself. And it can just be simple as that. I believe it 100%. It's just getting in the habit of doing it is a whole different ballgame for some people, for like me, I guess. Yeah. Well, it's a non-negotiable for me.

[00:29:15] Like my exercise, my eating healthy, my journaling in the morning, my dancing. It's like a non-negotiable. Every day, those things are part of my daily routine because they help me be the best version of myself for me and for my friends and for my family and for everybody that I get the opportunity to connect with.

[00:29:42] So people on the outside can say, oh yeah, that's selfish of you. But the people that hang out with me are like, oh, Shannon's super great to hang out with because I take care of myself. Right. So the proof's in the pudding, right? Oh yeah, I agree. So it's just making it like literally as I'm looking to the side, I'm just looking at my day timer. It's scheduled in there. It's scheduled for self-care. Oh wow.

[00:30:12] That's awesome. Yeah. It's a non-negotiable. That's great. When did you start that? If you don't mind me asking, I mean, was it after the cancer or was it before? I did go to school. I studied, I went to UBC University of British Columbia and studied human kinetics. And then I also studied therapeutic recreation at Douglas College. And in both of those programs, especially the therapeutic recreation program, there was a lot of talk about around self-care.

[00:30:41] But when I went back to school to study holistic nutrition after I was diagnosed with cancer and I wanted to be able to support my son because I knew there was a huge connection between the brain-gut connection. Right. And that program really revolved a lot around holistic health. And of course, holistic health is the whole person.

[00:31:04] And so we really focused on all the modalities like our physical or mental, emotional or spiritual, like the whole person. And so that's when it really things started to cement for me. Definitely after I went through cancer and going to starting to go on all these different retreats with the calendar society. And then I got quite connected with an organization called Inspire Health Integrated Cancer Care. And they speak a lot about holistic health and nutrition and wellness.

[00:31:34] And so it just started to be, I remember going in to see my doctor at Inspire Health. And she was, they were one of the only doctors in Canada where they were naturopathic doctors being paid by the government. Because typically, typically naturopathic doctors you pay for on your own dime. Right. But the government was paying for this.

[00:31:57] And I went in and I remember her saying to me, your practice is to dance every day when you go home. Oh, wow. That was my practice. You took it to heart. That was my practice from my doctor. She's like, you need to put on your favorite music and you need to move your emotions. And I'll never forget that. I'll never forget that day. Like how many doctors just pass you another pill? Oh, exactly. I don't care for that at all. Right.

[00:32:27] Instead, you can just dance and move those emotions that are meant to be moved. Like part of my routine in the morning, I have a little mini trampoline. And it's all, I love it. Like I do my little weights and then I jump on my trampoline and then back. And little trampoline is great. Because you're moving your emotions. You're shaking out. My yoga instructor calls it shaking out the nails.

[00:32:49] So the nails are like all the things, like the shitty things that people have said to you or the people that have hurt you or the situations that just didn't feel good. And so jumping on that trampoline and doing that dancing is literally shaking out the nails. That's awesome. I think it's also one of the best ways to move your lymph, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So you're detoxifying in all the ways. Yeah, that's very true. I hadn't thought about that. Right? Yeah.

[00:33:19] Yeah. So good. That is good. So good. Yeah. So have you found over the years that your circle of actual friends has changed to more like-minded people? Oh, gosh. Yeah, for sure it has. I remember this one moment where I had moved from Vancouver Island. Sorry, I'd moved from the mainland in Vancouver area over to Vancouver Island.

[00:33:44] And my girlfriend had phoned me and she said, Shannon, don't you miss all your friends and your family? And I said, going through cancer has changed me so much. I don't relate to a lot of my friends anymore. Like I just have a different perspective on life.

[00:34:05] When you have the opportunity, like when I went through my chemo, I was of that 1% that reacted violently to their chemotherapy. And my first chemo treatment, after my first chemo treatment, I didn't drink water or I couldn't even sip water or eat food for eight days. I was just in and out of emergency for eight days straight, just trying to stay alive.

[00:34:33] And you don't go through stuff like that and then walk out on the other end of that. You're not the same person. You're just not. And having the opportunity to go through that so young in life at 34 years of age with young twins already on top of being on bed rest for like two months, they were quite premature when they were born. And so there was just so much.

[00:34:58] I had no choice but to make massive shifts in my life and pay attention to the important things because the little things, I just I didn't have space for them. I just remember coming out of my chemo and standing in line in the grocery store and listening to people complain about the weather. And I'd be like, Oh, my gosh, seriously. So now that it's behind you, I don't want to call the cancer a gift.

[00:35:27] But do you feel like you got gifts out of that situation that you never thought you would have had? A thousand percent. It truly was a gift. It truly was a gift. It changed the whole trajectory of my life. You know, it gave me the opportunity to learn about holistic health. I mean, I changed everything in my life from there around eating around and I learned about energy medicine.

[00:35:51] I learned about even different supplements and eating whole food like I thought I ate really healthy. And then when I started to actually learn about holistic nutrition, I learned that I wasn't actually eating really healthy. I was eating what I thought was healthy. So many of us are drinking these like drinks now. We don't even look on the side of the label to see how much sugar is in these drinks.

[00:36:17] And as we know, or for those of you that are listening that don't know, but sugar is like one of the number one things that causes cancer. Like each cell I think has a cancer cell has eight more receptors for sugar than a regular normal cell. Oh, wow. I didn't realize that. I knew that cancer gobbles up sugar, but I didn't realize that. Yeah. Cancer loves sugar.

[00:36:40] And so I know my mom would phone me and sometimes she'd be, oh, so-and-so is diagnosed with cancer. It's so terrible. And oh my goodness. And I'd be like, mom, they're really negative and they don't eat healthy food at all. And they smoke all day long and they drink all night long. What do you expect their body's going to do? Our body, it's our job. We put the food in our mouths. Right. We choose who we hang out with.

[00:37:08] We choose the television shows that we watch. We choose. Every day we choose. And it's a choice. And I got that wake up call when I was 34 years old, which was amazing. A lot of people say to me to this day, I can't believe you're 52 years old. And I'm like, yeah, that's because I exercise and I eat healthy and I, I'm really mindful of the people that I hang out with. And I think that makes a really big difference.

[00:37:34] And would I be here sitting that saying that today if I didn't go through cancer? I don't know. I'm not sure. So yeah, it really was a blessing. I learned a lot. It's been a really great education. So how do you go back? Like I heard you saying you sit with other cancer patients. How do you not relive the bad parts as you're trying to help these folks?

[00:37:59] Well, no, my practice or my coaching, I haven't worked specifically with cancer patients, but I did sit in a lot of circles with people with cancer. For me, when I have the opportunity to listen to someone going through something really difficult, I guess it's different for everybody else or for other people. Everybody will find ways to move through it. But for me, it's just a reminder to focus on the really great things that are going on in my life.

[00:38:28] Because when someone is going through a really hard time, it sure can put things in perspective for you. Oh, yeah. It's like, okay, I'm not sick right now. Everything's going really well for me. And this person beside me is going through a really, really difficult time. And these are the times that remind us like, okay, I have a lot to be grateful for. A lot to be grateful for.

[00:38:53] So that's how I'd like to try and spin it is just to remind myself that there's a lot of people going through hard stuff. And yeah, I have had the opportunity to go through some really hard stuff. But you know what? On the other end of that, because everything is like this spectrum. Like I've had the opportunity to be in this dark, dark, these dark places in my life. There's been days where I didn't even want to be on this planet anymore.

[00:39:18] But the opposite end of that is that the joy that I experience in my life now is almost overwhelming on days because I've been on both ends of it. It's almost like the depths of the depths that we go is the highs of the highs that we also have the opportunity to feel. And so again, it's a reminder for me and for others, like when we're so afraid to go to

[00:39:45] those depths and feel those feelings that are so uncomfortable and, oh my God, I don't want to go there. But once we move through them on the other side, it's joy. And so it's just a reminder that it's okay to slow down and it's okay to feel the feelings because on the other side, there's a lot of joy. There is. And as you were talking, I had a strange thought, I guess, but I was thinking in the depths of grief even. Yeah.

[00:40:12] There's times, you know, where somebody will crack a joke or remember something that your loved one said or did and everybody's crying, but they're laughing at the same time. And so. Oh yeah. Yeah. I was just thinking that you can even find joy in the darkest moments. Not. Yeah. Not constant, but you know what I'm saying? No, there, you're so much truth to that. And you think about, I just, my godfather just passed away a month ago and went to his funeral

[00:40:38] and yeah, it was so beautiful because you have all these people in one room that are experiencing this grief. And I actually really love funerals. I know maybe that sounds crazy, but I do believe that the society that we live in, at least here in North America, we don't give ourselves permission to feel grief and the sadness when things come up.

[00:41:03] And so for me, funerals are like that opportunity where we really give people permission to feel the depths and let the tears flow. And yeah, as I was watching the slideshow of my uncle and all these great stories coming up of his fishings and his adventures and the people talking up on with the microphone and sharing all these funny memories.

[00:41:27] And so there we are, we're crying and we're laughing and we're grieving and we're feeling all the feelings. And it's just, to me, it's magical because it's what we're meant in this life. We're meant to literally feel it all. And I feel like when we go to these funerals and we're celebrating and we're grieving, it's this beautiful and the conversations that usually come out of those because everybody's

[00:41:55] in their heart, they're like deeply in their heart. They're always beautiful. I've always have some most amazing, beautiful connections when I go to, to, to celebrations of life. And that also happened at my godfathers. It was really beautiful. Yeah. I hadn't really thought of it that way, but you're right. And people are at their most vulnerable in that moment too. Yeah. And people don't often give themselves permission to do that, but something about a celebration

[00:42:22] of life or a funeral, whatever you want to call it is like a ticket to, to open your heart and feel. And what if we didn't need that ticket? What if we gave our self permissions to feel every single day and none of those emotions had to build up? What if we gave ourselves permission every day? How amazing would that be? It wouldn't be amazing. Yeah. So good. It is good. Yeah, I did.

[00:42:48] I definitely want to ask you real quick, probably not giving it enough time, but I want to talk, I want you to talk to us about the gift of failure because I heard your TED talk and I just want you to give us a brief definition of what you mean by that, the gift of failure. Oh goodness. Well, it's hard to be brief on this one. Yeah. I just meant I don't want to take you over your time is all I meant. No, I know. We're good. So for those that haven't had the opportunity to listen to my TED talk, it was my first day

[00:43:18] of grade two and I showed up in the classroom and I was raring to go. I had my favorite blue polka dot dress on and I'd taken out all my school supplies and I was ready to go. And my teacher walked to the front of the room and she picked up the class list and then announced to the entire class and all my friends that I had failed grade one and asked me to pack up my desk and ushered me back to the grade one classroom in front of all my friends.

[00:43:45] And that day never left me. That day was not about me failing grade one. That day was me believing that I was the failure. And that was a big part of my life for a very long time. And I'm still untangling parts of that even to this day as I step into the new version of

[00:44:12] myself every day, parts that come up where there's this unknown and is it going to work out and fear creeps in. And it's this constant reminding myself, whether it's my tools or reaching out to a friend that it's okay to not know. And failure is actually that moment has brought me to here.

[00:44:38] Like all the things that have unfolded in my life have brought me to this moment. You know, so would I have changed it all? Yeah, that was really crappy. I'm not going to, I'm not going to lie. But these things that unfold there, there is a plan. There's somebody that's got a bigger plan out there for us. And I don't know whether it's you believe in God or you believe in the universe or you

[00:45:05] believe in whatever it is, but I think most of us believe that there is something bigger than ourselves. Right. And we are just meant to follow the path, follow the joy and trust that the universe has a plan for us. And circling back to this piece around failure, it's how we grow. The mistakes that we make in our life is what brings us to the next moment.

[00:45:34] And when we get stuck in this fear around, I'm not going to do it right, or I'm going to do it wrong, or I can't do it perfectly. So if I can't do it perfectly, I'm just not going to do it. Then all of a sudden we're missing out on this big, beautiful life that we're supposed to be here to live. And so what if we were brave enough, brave enough just to show up, brave enough to try it anyways,

[00:46:01] brave enough to choose joy, brave enough. I love that. Yeah. Well, it doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be right. It doesn't have to be all the things I remember I've done. I have a Facebook live that I do and it's called toolbox Tuesday. And today was episode 202. And I remember my very first episode four years ago and coming on live, I was absolutely petrified.

[00:46:29] And I remember looking at the camera going, I think I'm alive. And I was so petrified, but I knew that I wanted to be a speaker. I wanted to share my story. I had things I needed to say. I had stories I wanted to share and I wasn't going to do it unless I just did it. And so I did it purposely on Facebook live.

[00:46:58] So if I messed up that I would make a mistake and I would just have to get the freak over it. Right. I couldn't, wasn't going to record it and then try to like edit it because I would have. Right. I wanted it to be live. So the mistakes would be there. And then I would just have to fumble through. That's pretty awesome. And be okay with the mistakes. And now I'm on episode 202. Congratulations.

[00:47:27] And four years later, and I'm on TEDx stages and doing some pretty incredible things. And it all starts somewhere. Do you think that I'm not scared still? Do you think that I don't have any fears? Oh my gosh. Every day, every day. I sat on my couch last night and bawled my eyes out while my friend held me because I was going through my own thing.

[00:47:54] And I phoned my friend and said, I need you to come over and sit on the couch with me so I can cry. Because I didn't want to hold that emotion in. Because I knew that if I moved that emotion, today would be a better day. And it is. It's a much better day. Because I don't want to get sick with cancer again. Yeah, absolutely. I don't want my body. I want to live a long life. I worked in extended care for many years.

[00:48:22] And there was this fellow, his name was Olander. And he played crib until the day he died. And he was 108 years old when he died. And he was just an incredible human. That's amazing. Yeah. I want to live a really long life. So I've got big things to do. And holding my emotions in and pretending that everything's fine isn't in my vocabulary anymore. I love that. I love that.

[00:48:52] Because we're human. We're human. We make mistakes. That's what we do. We make mistakes. We fail. And that's what makes us who we are. It's what builds character. That's what builds courage. That's what builds all the things that bring us to where we are right now. Yeah. I think you're 100% correct. It was funny because the other day at work, this guy was talking about how some of the

[00:49:19] people are behaving and they're very A personalities. I can't describe it. But anyway, he said, what do you think? And I said, I think I see a lot of wounded little kids that never got through, never processed whatever trauma they went through. I said, that's what I see. And he goes, he was like, wow, I never thought of it that way. And I said, that's what I see. Yeah. So. Yeah. There's a lot of that. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:49:49] And I even see that in extended care. Oh, really? And so, yeah, I do. Because that generation, that older generation, it was like, lift the carpet, sweep it under. Very true. Yeah. Right? And how many of those residents that are in there that are physically not well have unprocessed trauma that have just manifested into physical ailments?

[00:50:18] I mean, the science is there. Like, we can't deny it anymore. It's science. It's proven. Right. I agree. And so I want to just eat healthy, process my emotions, exercise every day, continue to keep my heart open. Because that, to me, is a big part of living this life and being brave and not being afraid. Because when we close our hearts, we miss out.

[00:50:46] And I want to experience all that this life has to offer. And that means being vulnerable. That means stepping out into the unknown. That means doing things that are, like, way out of our comfort zone. But on the other side of that, it's so good. Well, you're an amazing testament to that. And I want to give you just a couple minutes to tell us about your coaching program or your

[00:51:13] TED Talk or whatever you want to make sure that the audience hears. Oh, thank you so much. So right now, I am going to be facilitating a workshop, actually, next week. It's called Brave Enough to Be Yourself, which will be an hour. And it's a free workshop, which anybody can join. So I'll give you the link to that. I can send that along. You can also find me at shannondonohosimpson.com. You can connect with me there.

[00:51:41] You can watch my TED Talk and many, many other podcasts that I've been on. Different speaking opportunities. You can reach out to me there as well. You can find me on Instagram, Facebook, and also LinkedIn. And you can watch all of my Toolbox Tuesdays on my YouTube channel as well. So yeah, lots to connect with me. That's awesome. Well, I thank you for being with us. You're fascinating to talk to, and you're definitely an inspiration. So I appreciate you sharing all your wisdom with us today.

[00:52:11] Thank you so much for having me today. It was such an honor. Oh, thank you. Take care. Take care. Bye. Bye. As we wrap up this episode, I have to say what a beautiful conversation that was. One of the things that stood out to me most was Shannon's reminder that joy and pain are not opposites. They can exist together. We don't have to wait until life is perfect, until we're fully healed, or until every problem is solved before we allow ourselves to experience joy. I also loved her message about authenticity.

[00:52:40] So many of us spend years trying to meet expectations, keep everyone happy, carry the burdens we were never meant to carry. Shannon reminds us that there is freedom in telling the truth, honoring our emotions, and choosing ourselves without guilt. Her story is a powerful example of what can happen when we stop running from our pain and start listening to what it's trying to teach us. Through cancer, loss, heartbreak, and life's unexpected detours, she discovered something

[00:53:07] many people spend a lifetime searching for, that joy is not found in the perfect circumstances. It's found in how we choose to show up in our lives. Shannon, thank you for sharing your story, your wisdom, and your heart with us today. And to all of you listening, if you're walking through a difficult season right now, I hope this conversation reminds you that your story isn't over. There can still be joy. There can still be healing, and there can still be beauty in the mess. Until next time, take care of yourselves and keep finding the beauty in the mess.

[00:53:36] As always, I hope this episode helps at least one person. And with that, I hope you have a blessed week, my friend. Thank you for listening to The Beauty in the Mess. If you enjoyed what you heard, please share it with a friend. And if you haven't already, please subscribe, rate, and review this podcast on your favorite pod player. If you have any questions or comments, any topic ideas you would like to hear about, or

[00:54:03] you think you would be a great guest on the show, you can reach me directly at thebeautyinthemess.com. Thanks for listening.