Ep. 87 Breaking The Chains of People Pleasing with Tina O Hoang

[00:00:06] I'm Michele Simms and this is The Beauty in the Mess, a community where people who crave a shift in mindset, personal growth, and connection to like-minded people come together to start rewriting their stories. Through engaging, honest, and insightful conversations, the show will help you embrace the mess to recognize the meanings and the lessons it holds and discover its hidden treasures to help you start making a mindset shift. Let's listen, learn, and reclaim who we were meant to be.

[00:00:33] Hi friend, welcome to The Beauty in the Mess. In this episode I get to sit down with Tina O Hoang. Tina is a podcaster who describes herself as a recovering people pleaser. She shares her background growing up in a single parent household and how cultural expectations led her to constantly seek approval from others, especially her mom, I think.

[00:00:57] A pivotal moment from a past relationship spurred Tina to reassess her life choices and embark on a journey of self-discovery, which included confronting her inner child and making significant lifestyle and mindset changes. Tina discusses the ongoing struggle of breaking free from people-pleasing tendencies, the importance of setting boundaries, and offers practical advice on how to start embracing one's true self.

[00:01:24] Tina, the disabled podcast host of The Courageous Inner Beast, strives to ensure women have the space to choose themselves and share their courageous stories, whether it's changing how you're perceived within your family dynamic or leaving a comfortable 9-to-5 job or just advocating for yourself.

[00:01:50] Tina, the disabled podcast host of The Beauty in the Mess. Tina, the disabled podcast host of The Beauty in the Mess.

[00:02:13] Tina, the disabled podcast host of The Beauty in the Mess. Hi, I took the guest talent of the Shaw State inter- pork commercial, whoinnen coaching persons and converted into Services in the s Witch.

[00:02:44] Tina, the disabled podcast host of The Beauty in the Summary Show второй podcast host of The Beauty in the Mess. I think we can all learn from each other through the sharing of our experiences, lessons, and knowledge. So join me for episode 87 of The Beauty and the Mess called Breaking the Chains of People-Pleasing with Tina O. Huang. So without further ado, let's dive right into today's conversation. Hi, Tina. Welcome to The Beauty and the Mess. I'm so happy to have you with me today. Thank you for having me, Michelle. I really appreciate it.

[00:03:11] Oh, absolutely. Now, I know you're a podcaster and you call yourself a recovering people pleaser, among other things. But I was wondering if you could give us a little bit of your backstory today. Like what was sort of a pivotal moment that got you to where you're at today? Well, in regards of like people pleasing, I think I've always been a people pleaser ever since I was a little kid.

[00:03:34] Because I grew up in a single household and it was just the three of us, me, my mom, and my sibling brother. And all we had to do was like congregate until we need to look out for each other all the time. And with my mom, when you have a single parent, at least from my view, in the cultural aspect,

[00:03:59] we need to make sure our parents are loved and respected at all times. Like everything that we do as children, it affects how other people will look at our parents. Okay. Because in our culture, we look at that. If I was to be acting out, then, oh, the mom didn't raise her right. Look at her. She's acting out, cussing, doing drugs, whatever it is.

[00:04:27] Which I didn't do, but just example wise. Right. Everything goes back to the parents. And so kind of going back with that, the people pleasing is I grew up always having to please my mom. And instead of that, I started pleasing everyone around me and making sure that in order for me to be loved, for me to not be judged, for me to always people want to hang out with me, I always have to do make sure other people are happy before me.

[00:04:56] So I'm always in the background. I didn't realize it until later on where I felt like maybe I'm just here to exist, to just constantly exist for other people and not myself. And so I grew that. It was a long time until a year before COVID. So in my 20s and younger, I was always making people happy versus me. I don't even know asking myself.

[00:05:24] Sometimes people ask me, oh, Tina, what do you want to eat? I'm like, what do you want to eat? I don't even answer that question. Right. Because of that reason. And so I decided to, when that happened with the person I was dating before, they told me, hey, Tina, your passivity was unattractive. So that's the way the story behind it really started, was someone telling me, Tina, your passivity wasn't unattractive. And I'm like, oh, okay. I was shocked.

[00:05:54] I was like, okay, what do I do with this? Of course, we broke up, so nothing come out of it with them. But it really dived into who do I want to be moving forward from this comment, this remark. Saying that, do I continue? So there was, so kind of moving forward with the idea too, of my backstory of it too, is there are two choices that I was deciding what to choose.

[00:06:23] The first one was, okay, yeah, that's me. I'm a people pleaser. I'm passive. Everything's about me, a passivity. Do I continue doing that? Do I, should I continue existing this way for the rest of my life? I could have chosen that. I could have chosen it. But then I decided, nah, I'm good. I'm good. I don't want to do that. No, I'm good. Yeah, I don't want to do it. So kind of, that's what kind of like with my background a little bit of just starting

[00:06:52] with the people pleasing was family and friends. And then eventually that bleeding into my relationships. And then like now, five years, four years later, 2019. So it's been four years now. I can't count right now. Is it been four years or three years? But yeah, it's kind of like with the background of myself, of the people pleasing. It sounds like that comment kind of shocked you in a way.

[00:07:20] Like maybe it was the first time you realized that you were spending your life trying to please other people. Yeah. I mean, because it sounds like it made you think very deeply and very profoundly. Yes, it did. I mean, I cried a bunch. I cried, cried, cried a bunch because I was deciding which option. It wasn't like an easy option of, oh, option two. Hell yeah. That's my choice.

[00:07:47] No, it was a good two days, maybe two or three days. Because one, I was head over heels for this person. I was already in my mind changing my values for this person. That's how deep I was with this person, how ingrained changing my values for this person. The person wasn't asking for it. I was making it my own decision to make those changes. Right. And so it's sticking to me when they said, you know, the passivity.

[00:08:16] It's crazy how I didn't come. Yes. This is how I should be. This is what I need to be. But instead, I was like, no, I'm good. So because in the end, I ended up also, it was COVID. So COVID was March 2020. It was December 2019. That's when it happened. So I already had three months ish to kind of like, OK, let's get the ball rolling. And that's where all my work started because I was we were all cooped up in the room in the house.

[00:08:46] So as painful as that moment was, do you look back at it now and think that it was a good thing that happened? Can you do that yet? Yeah. No, it was a great moment because now I whenever I want to say something. So one of the things I learned, one of the things I learned about communication from a people, people, people pleasers standpoint is if I want, for example, I want to go to the beach. Before, I don't even say that what I want.

[00:09:16] I always say, what do you want to do today? What fun things you want to do today? Now I say, I want to go to the beach. What do you think? Do you want to go to the beach too? So now I'm putting myself in the front and then giving the option for other people to say, no, let's not go to the beach because I'm still honoring myself. I'm not pleasing if people say no. I'm like, OK, I said I want it what I wanted.

[00:09:43] Now we're going back and forth of it. So, yeah. Yeah, there's still room for compromise for sure. Yeah. So how do you get over people pleasing? Because, I mean, I don't want people to think that you just made that decision and everything miraculously changed because I'm sure this has been a progression. Yeah. No, I'm not over it.

[00:10:05] I think it's a lifelong thing where I will always I think like literally to death, like until I die, where there will be moments because in green, because it's something when you're in your childhood. It's always will be with you. Right. So there will be always be moments where I forget. And that's where the inner child comes in. Really, for me, my inner child's age. She's 15. She was 15 years old.

[00:10:32] I don't know why she's not a different age, but somehow that number is stuck and she's there. So, so like it's so for your listeners, like it's not a place to get one and done. You choose and you're done. It's an ongoing process of just reminding yourself, reminding your inner child, be like I see your for me example. I have sometimes I have really high anxiety, extreme anxiety.

[00:10:58] So I know that comes from my inner child trying to protect me, trying to tell me, hey, that's dangerous. Oh, no, don't do that. That's scary. What if you get hurt? What if you fail? And blah, blah, blah, blah, all kinds of things. But it's more of me. So that's kind of going back a little bit. So during my process work, when I decided to F this, we're going to work on this. So I journaled a lot during COVID.

[00:11:28] I also used a warm line, which is a great resource that I've used to talk to someone for 15 minute counselor. Not like going through therapy, but just venting a little bit, letting the feelings in your body to air out. Oh, wow. And so with those two components and reading too, I was able to develop and increase my self-awareness. Hence my inner child, being able to have an internal dialogue with her.

[00:11:56] Because there has been moments where going back to having high anxiety, I didn't see her coming. I will act on it and just derail myself and just do something else to avoid the high intensity of anxiety. But now it's just much easier now because when she comes up, my anxiety comes. I call her Tiny Tina because I'm already short, five foot, but she's still the same height. 15 years old, 15 year old Tina. And me now is like still the same height.

[00:12:26] So we haven't really grown that much, honestly. And so when she does have it, I just talk to her. I was like, hey, I see you're having anxiety right now. What's up, my girl? And then we talk it out. What if mom's failing? What if I fail? What if someone doesn't like me? Because my biggest fear is not being loved and liked as a person. And that's tying it to self-worth as well too.

[00:12:52] And figuring out, understanding where it's coming from, why I feel that way. So whenever I have that dialogue with Tiny Tina, I just hold her. A lot of things what I do is give her, holding her other hand, because I have a disability too. So I have cerebral palsy. So my right side of my body is affected. So noticeably, my right hand is a little smaller. So I see her, my younger child. My inner child is my right hand.

[00:13:20] So sometimes I would hold her hand and just squeeze it a little bit. Tell her, you're safe. We're here. You're safe. You're okay. And sometimes I even give just small squeezes on the arms, because that's also self-soothing for me to calm my anxiety and help me feel grounded. And just telling her, I'm here. You're safe. You don't have to do anything. We can talk through this.

[00:13:50] And there are moments, though, when she's not like any teenager, any 15-year-old teenage be like, no, I don't want to. Don't tell me what to do. I don't want to listen to you right now. And we're like, ah, dang it. Okay. Okay. And so I, those moments, I'm like, okay, well, okay. Well, you're just going to sit your butt down. Okay. Sit your ass down. We're hanging out. We're going to sit. You can come with me, but you're going to sit.

[00:14:19] And sometimes when you're stubborn, too, you're like, fine. Fine. Fine. She does that, too. And I was like, okay. We got this. It's fine. So as any typical teenager, like she would do that. And all I have to do is just that. And then I get to do my stuff because I also grew up not doing the hard things a lot of times. And I think that's also ties in with my people pleasing, too. What do you mean by not doing the hard things? With my disability.

[00:14:49] Oh. So I have a disability, right? And sometimes when you have a disability, there comes with pity, pampering. People cater to you. Yeah, cater to me. I just wanted to be treated normal or as an able body could be. And so I grew up being pampered so much. So I didn't really do a lot of hard things or things that are judged upon or whatnot.

[00:15:15] So when there are moments where I have to do hard things, that's when my inner child comes up a lot. And I say, I don't want to do the hard things. I don't want to do it. Don't make me. Like she's whining, complaining kind of thing. So sometimes that's where it's like, what if I fail? Or even what if I succeed and then I fail? If I succeed, who is going to love me or like me? Because they're going to judge me.

[00:15:42] Because there's like that constant cycle of critical, inner critic telling me, like, scared of what other people would think of me. And that's like the epitome of people pleasing. We can't do things if people won't like us. And so, you know, that's kind of... Right. And if you notice, you said both if you failed, people might not like you. But if you succeed, you're worried about the exact same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Can't win.

[00:16:10] I mean, either way you go, you're worried that you're going to be judged. Yeah. For some reason. Some... Yeah. It's like a lose-lose situation, really. Right. So it's best to just be in the shadows and let other people shine. Because if we act our true self and they don't like us, it's like, oh, shoot. Okay. They don't like us. That means we're not worthy enough of this. Like, we... And it's just a constant cycle.

[00:16:38] And I had been looking back at it before that encounter with my relationship. It was a constant thing. I don't know how I managed my life then. Because now, since 2019, the progress I've done, I feel so much more like me. Because growing up... So I have a person, very petite, five foot. My friends... Some of my friends call me like a ball of energy.

[00:17:06] Like, I can be bouncing around all the way around and just have so much energy. And I love that. I love having that much energy. And growing up, when I did have that energy, people in my life would tell me, calm down. Relax. Or like, why are you always so up and down all the time? You can't... I just have a lot of energy to consume, like, positive. I mean, like, I can go really high positive energy or really low negative energy.

[00:17:34] Like, either way, like, you will know I'm feeling it. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. And so it just feels so good right now. It just feels really good to show my authentic self now. And know that whoever I'm with, I always want to cheer them on. Because I know that feeling when someone's always telling you, Oh, don't do that. Don't do this. It's scary. What if you get hurt? The fear.

[00:18:03] The fearful, like, mindset. But I was like, yeah, I'm fearful. Well, let's do it anyway. That's also my motto is do it anyways. No matter what it is, whatever feeling you have, do it anyways. Because you will love it at the end, no matter what it is. And if it failed or it was a mistake, we learn. And do it again. Just do it anyways. Do it again. So I would think one of the toughest things would be, and I think there's a lot of us

[00:18:32] that are people pleasers and can obviously relate to everything you're saying. But kind of one of the toughest things is changing. I don't know how to word it exactly. But the people around you that are closest to you might have the hardest time accepting that change. Yes. So how do you work past that? Or how did you work past that? Well, it was a constant battle. I think, for example, my mom was, that was the root.

[00:19:01] When I really, so that's kind of going, I'll go to that real quick. Like, for me, how I started changing was getting to the root of my people pleasing. And then my mom was the first person that came to mind. So she was the first person that I had to push my own, not push my own journey, but stand on my own boundaries. Like, the first thing I remembered was asking her, can you please not open my mail anymore? We used to live together because I was younger. So I asked her that.

[00:19:31] And it wasn't a good outcome at all. She didn't understand it. And she gave the reason of, what if it's important mail that you need to give out or send out right away? What if you're not home? Which is understandable. If there's important mail, I'm not opening it. Like, something could happen to me. I don't know. Whatever it is. Right. But it just, it didn't turn out well.

[00:19:53] And then, but then I realized over time, I had to keep standing on my toe and foot saying no. Saying, no, I don't want to do this. No, mom. No, I don't want to go somewhere. No, I don't want to eat certain things. No, I don't want that. No, because I grew up being, my boundaries being pushed all the time. All the time. I would think saying no, it would be the other tough thing.

[00:20:22] Because when you say no, if you're a people pleaser, you're worried that you're going to hurt the other person's feelings or something bad is going to happen because you said no. Yeah. Oh, no, it did. Oh, it did. The first, I think maybe the first two months, I remember the first two months, I think it was like January, February, because when I started actually doing it, I just felt so guilty. I was like so guilty. I went back to my room and just started screaming in the pillow like, yeah, why do I feel so guilty right now?

[00:20:51] Uh-huh. Oh, my God. I was like, but then thankfully, I had the warm line. So I think that's also was able to help me surpass it because I didn't have therapy at that time because I think because of insurance purposes. So I used a warm line to just air out my feelings. But I felt so much guilt. I felt so much shame. I felt like my mom won't love me anymore. Or like anyone else that I say no to. I was like, oh, shoot, shoot. Like my anxiety was high.

[00:21:20] So yes, it was really hard during those times when I finally started to stand on my own two feet to say, no, I don't want to do this. No, I don't want to do that. But I'm willing to. That's also my I'm learning to shift my communication to by just instead of just saying, no, I don't want to do it. No, I don't want to do it. But what if we do this instead? I prefer to do this.

[00:21:44] It's still giving there's still that soft, soft boundaries or something like that. I don't want to do this. But what if we do this instead? And then maybe you could do that said or no and go back and forth of what would be we'll find a self in the middle, like with my friends and I, for example. And so it's it's been a progress, but I'm loving it. That's great. It's hard. So hard. Has your mom come around?

[00:22:14] Now, is she accepting it more? Accepting it more? I think it's more like a reluctant acceptance. Yeah. If you know what I mean? It's kind of like, well, my daughter is changing. OK, it is what it is. I can't really do anything. And so it's that's also kind of like where I'm grieving to is that inner child of myself is wishing and hoping my mom will be a certain mom.

[00:22:42] But of course, that's just like unrealistic because every mom is doing their best. Right. So my mom is doing her best as a parent. And as every mom is doing her best, especially with Mother's Day just earlier this week, too, is we're all doing our best. Right. Yeah. And she is reluctant acceptance. But also, yeah, at the same time, I'm grieving because I need to accept where she is. Right.

[00:23:08] I can't keep wishing and wishing for her to be the certain mom that I want her to be. So there's that grievance of, OK, I just have to be where it is right now. Just love her as where she is. Don't expect too much from her. Don't be like react. How you call it? Not react, but act the way where she is right now. And you also have to be mindful. We all do that.

[00:23:36] Our parents might have had a rigid upbringing, especially your mom, because you're saying it's cultural. So she probably. Yes. Yeah. And then her mom. So it comes from many lines, many generations. Yes. And she probably. Yeah. Acted the way they wanted her to act. She probably has a little difficulty understanding. Yeah. How you're able to not act that way. You know what I mean? Not in a bad way. Just trying to understand it. No, it's.

[00:24:06] I think it's also kind of like with because I have my education in counseling. So I do have more of a broader sense of like self-awareness of like visualizing how people are to the top of my own. So when I observe how my mom is, I feel kind of sad because all I want to do just in a way, I want to hold her. Hold her like, hey, mom. Cause I could see her. Cause her mindset of emotionally.

[00:24:34] It's like to, to a certain age. And all I want to do is just hold her like, hey mom, you're beautiful. You're amazing. You're wonderful. Like you don't have to do anything. You're like, she's a big, not advocate, but appearance is a big thing for her. And as she's getting older, she's scared of having all these wrinkles. Feeling like, oh, I'm getting uglier. And I was like, oh, these wrinkles and all that. I was like, I was like, mama, you're fine. You're fine. You're beautiful. You're gorgeous.

[00:25:04] And then sometimes she's weird, weirded out by it. She's like, oh, why? I can see her face. Like, why are you saying this to me right now? So that's because I know that's what she needed. It's like, she needed the love from someone not giving. Oh, she also grew up with eight siblings. So that's a lot. Oh, wow. Yeah. So the kind of love that she needed for herself wasn't there. So it's kind of with that too. She grew up. I got my people pleasing from her actually too.

[00:25:33] She pleased everyone around her to the point where she's burnt out. And sometimes, for example, when we have like back then, like holiday gatherings, she would go all out to the very end. And me and my brother would tell her, like, mom, you don't need to do that. You're good. You're good. You don't have to do this big thing. Like, you don't want to. Okay. You don't have to. But she feels like she's obligated to do so.

[00:26:00] And so it's kind of like going back to the people pleasing to you in a child. I realized my mom is such a big component in my life where I'm upbringing now the good and the bad. So it's not all bad as well because there are some areas in her life where she really taught me to just fight for yourself, to be strong-willed and really just freaking just don't deal with anyone's crap.

[00:26:26] I mean, there are moments where she's four nine now. She's got shorter. My mama. She's only four and nine, but you can hear her like two miles away from her. I can hear her. And her feistiness. She has so much like my positive energy, my outburst sometimes, or even her own feistiness. I got it from her because she does not let anyone back her down. Like she will fight.

[00:26:56] My mom's a fighter. Like she has always been a fighter and she's still a fighter now. She's gotten older. She still fights for herself and fight for everyone else, even though despite being a people pleaser too. But other than that too, she is really someone that I value and love despite the upbringing of how we were. And still now is that went away, but it really taught me of inner child a lot.

[00:27:24] So how did you come to studying inner child? What got you on that path? Honestly, I think it was my education. Okay. I learned about it during my master's program. Okay. When we were in counseling. And then I think the inner child, the voice of her came more apparent when I was journaling a lot, talking to the counselor, going to therapy, reading. I would see her talking. I'd like see her talking. I was like, who is that voice?

[00:27:54] I knew I'm not hallucinating. I know that. I know that. You actually visualize her as well. Yeah, I have. And then just, I see her just acting out as a teenager saying like, really, like, why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? I don't want to do this. Like, she's like being really anxiety induced. Like, she's screaming and yelling and whining so much. Wow. Yeah. And it's, yeah.

[00:28:23] And I see her and I was like, wait, in my mind. But it's all sometimes I, for me, I'm a verbal problem solver. So I talk out loud with her. Like right now she's calm because I had another conversation through another podcast. And during that time, she was yelling at me and saying, why are you exposing me? Why are you telling all our dirt? Why are you telling me all this stuff? I'm supposed to keep, we're supposed to keep it quiet. Like, why are you saying all this?

[00:28:51] And I'm like, and internally, as I was talking to the host at the time and to myself is, you're fine. You're safe. You're safe. I'm here. We're okay. It's okay to share this. It's okay to tell our story as it is because other people need it. We need it to have it be open. It's not good to hold it in all the time because then that would create shame and guilt. And do we want that?

[00:29:20] And she's like, no, I don't want that. And I said, okay, good. Okay, cool. And so, so we're just continuing on the conversation with the host at the time. And, and so it's kind of both talking it in my mind, but also talking out loud. I'll say another example is I see you say, yeah, I know. I see myself too. It's like we would talk. It just has a constant dialogue with each other all the time.

[00:29:47] And it's fun to see my growth in it because it feels so good to finally be where I am now. Then in 2019, where I was tugged like a tug of war within myself of, no, I have to be here. No, I have to be here. Or actually, no. So the fact that I'm in a tug of war means it's a good thing.

[00:30:12] Because when I'm not in a tug of war and I'm not angry, that means, oh yeah, I'm, I know I'm passive and I'm just going to stay here. But if I keep fighting a lot, it's like, no, I don't want to be passive. No, I want to be, I want to be more assertive. No, don't be assertive. Like that questions all the time.

[00:30:27] Then I know that my inner self, my inner strength is coming stronger and stronger, stronger so that eventually my inner critic, inner child critic will become a size of a grain of salt. A grain of salt. It will never go away. That's why I say to myself, it's not going to be a cloud and evaporated. It will always be a grain of salt or maybe a grain of rice that will forever stay in me. Right.

[00:30:57] Just to continue, not to water it with water. Because when you water a rice, it will soak it up and make it bigger. Yeah, expand. Expand, yes. And so we don't want it to expand. So as long as I don't pour water in there, in that grain of rice, then we're good. And then whenever it does come up to the surface, I will calmly let her know, you're good.

[00:31:24] And if she doesn't, well, there you go. We're going to have a fighting battle now. So yeah. I think you're going to win. Yeah, I know. But sometimes I lose though. Like my present self, I lose. And so I just kind of just let it out. And then whoever's around me, I say, let y'all know I'm not in a good mood. And then that's kind of entertaining. Okay, we're good. And then just let myself out a little bit because she deserves it.

[00:31:53] A lot of people have the tendency to slip back into old habits or bad habits. Yeah. Is it just that constant mental battle? But how do you not let yourself slide backwards? Is it just keeping it self-awareness, keeping it in front of you all the time? Yeah. I mean, sometimes it slips, honestly. But when I do see it coming, I have to like physically hold myself steady.

[00:32:23] Like hold my two armchairs, for example. And just like have anxiety right now. So, okay. I see it. I see that you're about to go back to the old habits real quick. Just for us. I know it's not as bad because it's been like 2019. So it's been like four or five years now. Right. So it's now it's easier to when it starts coming up. I immediately do my physical self-soothing and my mental self-soothing.

[00:32:52] The mental self-soothing is like, Tina, you're safe. You're here. I'm here. Let me hold you. Let me hold you right now. And I hold her. And my physical soothing is like rubbing, like squeezing my arms, squeezing my legs, squeezing my body. Just relax the body. It's like you're safe. You're not going to. You can choose. You can choose. You have the power to choose and say, no, you don't want to do it. You can choose who you want in your life. You can choose. And that's what's scary for me, too.

[00:33:22] It's or surprising when I realize I have the power to choose. Sometimes I forget. When the old habits come back, I just let it happen. And then I'm back. And I'm like, oh, I just did what I did. Wait. Got to go back. And so I think as long as you know what helps you to not go back in your old habits or relapse

[00:33:50] or whatnot into your old habits, just once you have the techniques and tools to help you feel grounded again and like, oh, that's not me. That was my inner child. So it's kind of saying it's not an excuse, but I'm going to do better now. That's great. Yeah. And it sounds like you're doing wonderfully. I was just wondering if do you still journal? I know you mentioned that as a tool that you used early on. Yes.

[00:34:19] Do you still use it as a tool? Yes. Yes. I still use it as a tool and it's amazing to, I'm not journaling as much as before. I would journal every single day, but now I'm trying to get back to the habit again. But I've been journaling like every so often when I'm really having like really high emotions and I just need to let it all out. And once I write it, I'm like, oh, I'm good. I feel good. It's like, why did I just do this earlier?

[00:34:45] And so, yeah, journaling is still, I still use, I still talk to, I still use therapy as an outlet to share my thoughts and process what I need to tackle. Still pretty good. And the warm line, I still really do recommend people using the warm line. In every state, it has a different number and the procedure of it is. But here in California, that's where I am.

[00:35:13] They have a warm line that you can call for 15, talk for 15 minutes, three times a day. And the peer counselor just really just there to support you and listen to you while you're in it. And I love the warm line because it's not the suicide line, because the warm line is kind of, it's more of when you're simmering. You're like, oh, it's simmering, like water analogy, simmering. You're not boiling, but you're simmering and you just need to let it out a little bit.

[00:35:41] And then once you let it out, you're not simmering anymore. You're just like hanging out in the water. You're like hanging out. I have to say that before this conversation today, I had never heard of a warm line. So that's very interesting. I'm going to have to Google and see if they have one here. Yeah, I always have different ones. It's such, I love it. It's, I really do believe the people that it's not, the warm line is at least here in California.

[00:36:09] It rotates to different counselors in that facility. But it's so, it really, in a way it saved my life during that time. Wow. It saved my life because I needed to talk to someone during that time, especially in that growth process of changing, transitioning of who I've always been to changing who I am now, feeling that I always had to stay as a passive person.

[00:36:38] But now I can become assertive and courageous as can be. And there were many people in, many people on that line who were very comforting and also like really badass. They were like, Tina, you don't need to do that. You're amazing. You got this. And just cheering me on. And then someone, they're just there to support and listen. I really value some of the people that I met through there. And one day, I hope one day, at least I know there's one or two people that I met during

[00:37:07] that time really changed my life. I hope that one day I'll meet them in person and just tell them like, thank you. Thank you so much. Pretty awesome. Yeah. So I have to ask you, I know you're a podcaster. What led you to podcasting? Honestly, this whole story that I've been telling you right now is pretty much why. Okay. Okay. Did you just want to reach other people who are people pleasers or what was your thought behind it?

[00:37:36] Well, my thought behind it, well, one, so kind of backstory of it, that too, is I've always wanted to be a speaker. We're a speaker, like TED Talk speaker, be on a platform. Hi, everyone. My name is Tina and blah, blah, blah, blah. So, but then I realized that I have, I have three fur babies at home. So that's where I was like, I'd rather be home with my fur babies than traveling a lot and speaking. So that's what the podcast came about of doing it.

[00:38:02] And then while I was brainstorming of what subject mission that I want from it, I, you know, I dive deep into what I really want. And so I grew up not being seen and not being heard. So as you hear the stories before, I felt not really being heard or seeing what I want, seeing me as important or me as who I matter.

[00:38:26] So the came about of the Courageous Inner Beast, which is my podcast, is really giving and holding space for women to share their courageous stories, unfiltered and uncensored. Like on our podcast, we, I just give no shits. You share your story how it is. But then if you, that's the thing too, I don't have every woman come on and share their story.

[00:38:51] When we have our pre-interviews, I see, I check to see if, are you really sharing your story or are you performing your story? Because there's a difference between that. And I understand every woman has their own nuance and past of what, why they share their story in a way they share their story. And I validate that. And I appreciate that too. And for the podcast herself, I call her herself because she is a she. She's she.

[00:39:22] It happens like, I want to bring authentic stories. And if I feel it like this is true to you, then it will be true to my listeners, whoever's listening to it. And that's where it came about of. I want more women to share their courageous stories because we're always, we as women, we're told to tame ourselves, told to be ladylike, told, oh, don't say that. That's so weird. Or don't be like, you need to act this way. We act that way. And we're like, oh, come on.

[00:39:51] Can you just hush and let us do our thing? OK, because we don't need to abide to everyone else. We love what we do. And so that's why I give that space for women. I'm just here to listen to you. I'm cool with it. And then react and chime in if I need to. Or even ask questions based on the questions, based on the information they give me. Right. I'll say, what? What? Really? And so, yeah. That's awesome. How did you start with your podcast? Your beauty in the mess? I love that, by the way.

[00:40:21] Yeah, I think it's just facing a lot of different adversity in life, me and my family. And at the time you're going through it, you might think it's the most horrible time in your life. But when you get past it, you can see the gift that it gave. Either you learned something or you met someone that changed your life or. Yes. You know, there was some gift usually. Absolutely. So that was the premise of it. And it's kind of funny.

[00:40:46] I relate to what you're saying, because when I first decided to start the podcast, the first thing my husband said was, you're not a podcaster. What are you thinking? You can't do that. What do you mean? So my first episode was the great unboxing, because I talked about how people try to put us in this box that's convenient for them. Yes. But that's not maybe who we are. And you want to break out of that box. So yeah. And yeah, no, I girl. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:41:16] No. Like, we're not trying to be boxing the end. OK, let me do our thing. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Because, yeah, I didn't. That wasn't how he thought of me. So. Yeah. But now he's an avid listener and he's always chiming in saying, hey, you should get so and so. He acts like I'm Joe Rogan and I can bring on anybody I want. Oh, that's so awesome. It's funny. But yeah.

[00:41:45] Sometimes I was lucky and that he came around pretty quickly, but I know a lot of times the people around us are the hardest ones to get to accept. Yes. These big changes in life. So especially a parent. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are some people in my life that I haven't told either. So, yeah. Oh, really? That are close to you? I haven't told people and some people in my life that I have podcasts because. Yeah, I haven't.

[00:42:11] But yeah, people who are close to me, I don't tell them just because they're not accepting of it. Then I'm just like, it's okay. It's not a problem. They're not ready to hear it yet. No, not at all. And I think sometimes that's okay because if you're okay with it and they're not ready yet and there will be a time maybe down the road. Yeah. That you can share that with them. Yeah. Hopefully. Hopefully soon. So are there any takeaways or anything you want to make sure that the listeners hear

[00:42:41] that we haven't talked about? I think the biggest takeaway, I think I said it earlier in the conversation was do it anyways. I think that's like the most courageous thing you could do for yourself is when you're feeling a certain feeling of what you want to do, what you need to do, what you desire to do for yourself. And there's so many voices, feelings telling you to not do it. Do it anyways.

[00:43:08] Do it anyways because on the other side of that, you will feel so good. So amazing that you did it. Even if the feeling may not be as great, you did it and you learned. And you're like, okay, not again. What about all those fears though? The fear of failure, the fear of success. What about them? Yeah. Fear of succeeding. I think for me, for me, it's like the fear of succeeding. What if I were to succeed in this podcast, like my own podcast?

[00:43:38] I was, why I'm so slow at it right now is still is because what if I fail at succeeding? What if I vamoosh and I'm like, wow, everyone wants to be on my podcast right now. What happens? What do I do? Do this. And so when those fears come up, just do it anyways, because in the end, it would be amazing feeling after no matter what it is. Yeah. And I read a quote, I think it was today or yesterday.

[00:44:04] The only thing we regret is what we didn't do, not what we did do. So yes. Yes. And life is too short. Yes, yes, yes. A hundred percent. Yes. Yeah. And also quoting from Atomic Habits, James Clear. Just when you do it, do it anyways, just do it for two minutes, two minutes of it. You don't have to do the whole thing. Just do two minutes and then you succeeded that day. You did amazing. You did wonderful for that day. Right.

[00:44:34] That's a good way to look at it for sure. Yeah. So if people are listening and they're like, hey, I love what Tina's having to say and I want to follow her or find her. Where's the best place people can find you? Everyone can find me on my, like based on my name. So Tina O. Hwang, H-O-A-N-G. Like literally that's my handle for my Instagram, my website, my Facebook. That's great. Literally just like that's where everyone can find me and then chat with me and just get

[00:45:03] to know me too because I'm willing to talk. Go for it. I'm good. Well, you have an awesome personality. That's for sure. Thank you, Michelle. I really appreciate it. And you're an amazing host too. Oh, thank you. I love that you're holding space for me to share this. Really appreciate it. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I'm glad you're willing to share it and you're not in your box anymore. Yes. I'm like, she must do.

[00:45:29] Well, I thank you for all your wisdom and for coming today and sharing with us. It's been really fun. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Really, really. Thank you. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye. As we wrap up today's episode, I hope Tina sharing her knowledge, experience, and wisdom has helped you in some way. I think one of the most important things Tina showed us was the struggle that we know as people-pleasing. And many of us know that firsthand.

[00:45:59] We know it very well. However, she took it a step further and showed us what it's like, or at least told us what it's like to be on the other side of that. And it's pretty wonderful. And I know she's tackled inner child work, which she let us see how she does that firsthand as well. And many of us carry wounds from childhood to this day that we don't even realize are affecting us and the decisions that we make or don't make.

[00:46:25] And lastly, I like how she pointed out that in California, there's something called the warm line where you can call and talk to people to get support and help with stress or whatever it is you're trying to deal with. And I don't know about all of the other states, but I looked up Indiana where I am at. And there is a Hope line, which is a resource for crisis support, supportive listening and help with stress. And it's at 1-877-235-4525.

[00:46:54] And there's also an Indiana warm line at 1-800-933-5397 that offers one-on-one conversations to help people in recovery and those that are trying to deal with mental health challenges. So wherever you are, I encourage you to check out your local area and see what's available if you need that kind of support. Hopefully something like this exists in every state in the United States, at least. So I hope you enjoyed today's show. I would love to hear from you.

[00:47:23] As always, I hope this episode helps at least one person. And with that, I hope you have a blessed week, my friend. Thank you for listening to The Beauty and the Mess. If you enjoyed what you heard, please share it with a friend. And if you haven't already, please subscribe, rate, and review this podcast on your favorite pod player. If you have any questions or comments, any topic ideas you would like to hear about, or

[00:47:49] you think you would be a great guest on the show, you can reach me directly at thebeautyandthemess.com. Thanks for listening.