Ep. 68 Travel Mania with Karen Gershowitz

[00:00:06] I'm Michele Simms and this is The Beauty in the Mess, a community where people who crave

[00:00:11] a shift in mindset, personal growth and connection to like-minded people come together to start

[00:00:16] rewriting their stories.

[00:00:17] During engaging, honest and insightful conversations, the show will help you embrace the mess to

[00:00:23] recognize the meanings and lessons it holds and discover its hidden treasures to help

[00:00:27] you start making a mindset shift.

[00:00:30] Let's listen, learn and reclaim who we were meant to be.

[00:00:33] Hi friend, welcome to The Beauty in the Mess.

[00:00:37] For this episode I'm welcoming Karen Gershowitz to the show.

[00:00:41] Karen is officially a travel addict who doesn't want treatment.

[00:00:45] She shares her incredible journey of becoming a world traveler with us, having visited over

[00:00:51] 95 countries and authored two books.

[00:00:54] Karen will dive into the inspirations behind her travels, her passion for connecting with

[00:00:59] locals and her experiences traveling solo.

[00:01:03] She also recounts memorable encounters from all over the globe, she discusses food she's

[00:01:08] tried and gives practical advice on overcoming travel fears.

[00:01:12] Karen also touches on the impacts of her travels on her personal growth, spirituality and

[00:01:18] perspectives on different cultures and religions.

[00:01:21] She provides all of us with tips for safe and enriching travels whether exploring

[00:01:26] nearby places or venturing overseas.

[00:01:29] Karen is an example that will inspire even the armchair travelers out there to become

[00:01:35] explorers and encourage everyone to be more courageous.

[00:01:39] So without further ado, let's dive right into today's conversation.

[00:01:43] Hi Karen, welcome to The Beauty in the Mess.

[00:01:45] I'm so glad to have you today.

[00:01:47] Well thanks for having me.

[00:01:49] I know that you have traveled to 90 plus countries and that you're now the author of two books.

[00:01:57] Is that correct?

[00:01:58] Correct.

[00:01:59] Yeah, and before we dive into that a little deeper, I was wondering if you could tell

[00:02:03] us what your journey was that led you to become this world traveler because I'd

[00:02:09] love to hear what inspired that.

[00:02:11] Well a couple of things.

[00:02:13] My mother always wanted to travel, but given various circumstances it just she couldn't.

[00:02:20] But I grew up in Manhattan and New York is a very, very diverse place with even when

[00:02:27] I grew up which was in the 1950s.

[00:02:31] There were restaurants from all over the globe, performances came in from all over

[00:02:38] the place, you know different dance and music and theater.

[00:02:42] And my mother took me to all of this took me to museums and I got fascinated and wanted

[00:02:47] to see where all of this came from.

[00:02:50] That was kind of the nut of it.

[00:02:53] But then at the end of the 60s I went off by myself to Europe and I have to be honest

[00:03:02] and say that it was mostly to escape New York City.

[00:03:05] And I wanted to put an ocean between us.

[00:03:08] And once I was over there, I was a student.

[00:03:13] It was very easy to travel around and very, very inexpensive if you were a student and

[00:03:18] I stayed at youth hostels and wherever else.

[00:03:21] And I got really hooked.

[00:03:23] And I frequently joke that I have a travel addiction and I do not want to be cured

[00:03:28] of it.

[00:03:28] And I really do.

[00:03:30] People look at the list of places I'm going just this year alone and they go, oh my God,

[00:03:36] are you crazy?

[00:03:38] I'm passionate.

[00:03:39] It keeps me young, keeps me excited about things.

[00:03:43] And I love sharing it.

[00:03:45] I genuinely love sharing it.

[00:03:47] I teach a slew of classes about travel.

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:53] And obviously I've written two books.

[00:03:55] I'm writing the third one.

[00:03:56] I write a lot of travel articles.

[00:03:58] So yeah, it's a very deep seated passion.

[00:04:02] So I have to ask you, do you travel alone a lot or do you travel with others?

[00:04:07] A mixture.

[00:04:08] A mixture.

[00:04:09] Yeah, I love traveling alone, which surprises a lot of people.

[00:04:14] And I'll tell you why because everybody goes, really, why would you want to do that?

[00:04:19] When you by yourself, particularly if you're in a foreign country, more so than in

[00:04:24] the US, although I like traveling around the US alone as well.

[00:04:28] You are more likely to have connections or make connections with locals.

[00:04:36] If you're with someone else, no one is going to come up and talk to you just randomly.

[00:04:42] But if you're by yourself and you're sitting in a cafe or you're looking at a museum,

[00:04:48] people will come up and start a conversation or I feel comfortable going up to someone

[00:04:52] else and starting the conversation, which is very difficult if you're with people.

[00:04:58] And I have a few tips for anybody who wants to travel solo overseas, particularly in non-English

[00:05:05] speaking countries.

[00:05:06] Bring a book that has a title on it in English that's very bold.

[00:05:12] You can't miss.

[00:05:14] And sit at a cafe or go to a college campus and read.

[00:05:20] But look up periodically to see what's going on around you and someone will come over because

[00:05:28] a lot of people, particularly in Asia, South America, not so much Europe but Africa, but

[00:05:35] even in Europe want to speak English with a native born native English speaker.

[00:05:40] And so they'll come over just to chat.

[00:05:43] And I've gotten invited to dinners and lunches and had people take me around their town

[00:05:48] just doing that.

[00:05:51] They're always surprised.

[00:05:52] Yeah, that's amazing.

[00:05:53] Yeah, but it really works because you're approachable.

[00:05:57] And that's one of the reasons I like going alone because one of the big thrills for me

[00:06:03] about traveling is that you really get immersed in another culture.

[00:06:08] I'm not looking to go see the big tourist sites and at this point in my life, I've

[00:06:13] probably seen most of them.

[00:06:15] So I'm not going somewhere just to go see the Eiffel Tower.

[00:06:20] But I love going to Paris and just talking with people and going to places that are

[00:06:27] really off the beaten path, people's neighborhoods and seeing, excuse me, seeing what

[00:06:32] they're like and how people live.

[00:06:34] That to me is interesting.

[00:06:36] Oh, it is very interesting.

[00:06:38] But I have to ask, have you ever felt scared when you're by yourself?

[00:06:44] No.

[00:06:45] Never?

[00:06:46] Wow, because I would think that being a female, I would think that would be the

[00:06:49] number one thing is feeling frightened or...

[00:06:52] You get over it really quickly.

[00:06:55] When you realize that most people in the world, we all have the same basic needs.

[00:07:02] We're all looking to have a better life for our children, for our families, to have

[00:07:07] a nice place to live, to have good food and that doesn't vary around the world.

[00:07:12] There are bad apples that I'm not going into war zones.

[00:07:16] But if you're in almost any country, people are very kind, very helpful.

[00:07:22] If you show respect for their culture.

[00:07:26] And it's funny because I just wrote an article that's going to be published

[00:07:30] shortly about overcoming fear when you're traveling.

[00:07:36] That's wild.

[00:07:37] Literally, I just wrote it because it does come up so often.

[00:07:42] Yeah, that's what I was saying.

[00:07:43] I would think that would be the number one...

[00:07:45] A lot of people and especially after COVID, people have got very, very nervous about.

[00:07:54] And it's...

[00:07:55] I haven't had...

[00:07:56] I've gotten robbed once in my life.

[00:07:58] I was in my early 20s and I was in Japan, which everyone thinks is very safe.

[00:08:05] And that was the only time I had ever been robbed.

[00:08:08] I've never been mugged.

[00:08:10] I've never been...

[00:08:12] I've never had problems.

[00:08:14] I have a chapter in one of the books called Traveling in Fear,

[00:08:17] and it's not what anybody expects.

[00:08:20] I was on a business trip in Brazil.

[00:08:24] And the first part of the trip was great.

[00:08:26] I was in Rio and I was by myself and just wandering around

[00:08:30] and everybody kept telling me,

[00:08:31] be careful, be careful, be careful.

[00:08:33] I never felt threatened at all.

[00:08:34] And I was walking around by myself.

[00:08:36] I wasn't going into the favelas, the slums,

[00:08:40] but in the main part of Buenos Aires, I felt absolutely safe.

[00:08:44] And it was not an issue.

[00:08:46] But then I went to Sao Paulo.

[00:08:48] And in Sao Paulo, I was doing business

[00:08:50] because I did a lot of international work.

[00:08:53] And in Sao Paulo, I was put up at the best hotel in the city,

[00:08:59] which was a huge problem

[00:09:00] because the minute you walk out, you become a target.

[00:09:06] And then my client kept saying, be careful.

[00:09:09] Don't get in a taxi unless we send it for you

[00:09:12] because if you get into something, it'll take you.

[00:09:15] Da-da-da-da.

[00:09:16] They got me so scared and I was an experienced traveler.

[00:09:20] And they got me so scared that I ate every meal in the hotel

[00:09:24] except if I was eating with my clients

[00:09:26] because they had just instilled fear in me.

[00:09:29] Wow.

[00:09:29] And it was the first time that I really understood

[00:09:33] how people get scared going places.

[00:09:36] You hear all kinds of things.

[00:09:40] The likelihood that it's going to happen is very slim.

[00:09:44] I live in New York City.

[00:09:45] I'm as likely to get into trouble here

[00:09:47] as I am anywhere else in the world.

[00:09:50] Right.

[00:09:50] And I've never had any trouble here.

[00:09:52] You have to a little bit of street smart

[00:09:54] not do things that are just silly.

[00:09:57] And one of the rules that I've always said to everyone,

[00:10:00] if you feel uncomfortable somewhere,

[00:10:03] leave immediately.

[00:10:05] Just leave.

[00:10:06] And these days with Uber is almost everywhere.

[00:10:11] Call Uber and leave.

[00:10:13] Don't stay in any situation that makes you uncomfortable.

[00:10:16] But I have to tell you, I haven't had that happen.

[00:10:20] That's awesome.

[00:10:21] And make sure wherever it is that you're staying,

[00:10:25] make sure you have a card from the hotel

[00:10:27] if you're staying at a hotel

[00:10:28] or you have the address and the information

[00:10:30] if you're renting Airbnb

[00:10:33] so that you can hand it to a taxi driver

[00:10:35] or an Uber driver and say, just take me there

[00:10:38] because you may not be able to speak with them.

[00:10:39] But it's truly not an issue.

[00:10:42] It's more in your head than the reality is.

[00:10:45] And I was on a call.

[00:10:47] I do a lot of writing for an organization

[00:10:49] called Journey Woman.

[00:10:51] And it's for female travelers over age 50.

[00:10:54] And we were having a conversation about this.

[00:10:57] And I think there were 10 of us on the call.

[00:11:00] We're all writers for them.

[00:11:01] And to a person, we all said,

[00:11:04] have you had anything happen?

[00:11:05] No. Have you ever had anything happen?

[00:11:07] No. Yeah, I was robbed once

[00:11:09] and it was me being stupid.

[00:11:10] I put my purse down

[00:11:11] and then I walked away for a few minutes.

[00:11:14] It was literally there were 10 of us

[00:11:16] who travel extensively

[00:11:17] and not a single one of us had ever had any trouble.

[00:11:20] That's wonderful.

[00:11:21] Yeah. Do you feel like living in New York City

[00:11:24] and having traveled as much as you have

[00:11:26] that you've developed?

[00:11:27] Like you can read people,

[00:11:28] maybe better than the average person can,

[00:11:30] where you can sense

[00:11:32] if somebody's up to some sort of shenanigans

[00:11:35] or and you need to leave.

[00:11:36] I mean, do you think you that's a skill set you have

[00:11:39] or do you think everybody?

[00:11:40] It's probably true.

[00:11:42] Right.

[00:11:42] I've been traveling for so long

[00:11:43] and so much

[00:11:45] that I think I probably do have a sixth sense.

[00:11:47] I don't even think about it.

[00:11:49] But I rarely am in situations

[00:11:50] where I'm feeling uncomfortable, rarely.

[00:11:53] And I don't put myself in situations.

[00:11:56] I check things out before I go.

[00:11:58] If I'm going into something

[00:12:00] that might be a dicey neighborhood,

[00:12:01] I'm not going alone.

[00:12:03] I haven't loved street art.

[00:12:05] I'm really crazy about it.

[00:12:08] And so I've gone into all kinds of neighborhoods

[00:12:11] because it's not typically

[00:12:13] in downtown areas.

[00:12:15] It's an industrial areas.

[00:12:17] And so I'll find a tour,

[00:12:19] a walking tour that's going there

[00:12:21] because I don't want to go alone.

[00:12:24] Or I'll connect with someone and say,

[00:12:26] I'm going to go do this.

[00:12:27] Do you want to come with me?

[00:12:28] Right.

[00:12:29] But I wouldn't be alone.

[00:12:30] I'm not going into an industrial area by myself.

[00:12:34] And again, I love traveling alone,

[00:12:36] but you're less likely to get into trouble

[00:12:38] if you're with someone else.

[00:12:40] Very true.

[00:12:42] So in all your traveling adventures,

[00:12:44] have you met someone that's impacted your life

[00:12:47] more than you ever thought would happen?

[00:12:50] Oh, I've had a few.

[00:12:52] I have absolutely had a few.

[00:12:52] One of them is, I had described this,

[00:12:56] it was somebody who I was working with.

[00:12:58] Is it travel?

[00:12:59] I don't know.

[00:13:00] But it was in Brussels.

[00:13:01] And we've become lifelong friends.

[00:13:04] And that was back in the 90s,

[00:13:05] and we are still extremely close friends.

[00:13:09] She's now living in London,

[00:13:11] but we're on Zoom all the time.

[00:13:13] That's wonderful.

[00:13:14] And yeah.

[00:13:16] And it just happened.

[00:13:17] And we've learned a lot about each other's cultures

[00:13:20] and how we think about things

[00:13:21] because of that friendship.

[00:13:23] I've had people who have gone out of their way

[00:13:28] to take me places and show me things.

[00:13:31] And I like quirky things.

[00:13:33] I really like quirky things.

[00:13:36] And I've had people who now send me notes

[00:13:40] who are other avid travelers.

[00:13:43] And I probably haven't seen them in 20 years,

[00:13:46] but we send emails to each other all the time

[00:13:50] about, oh my God,

[00:13:51] I just came back from so-and-so.

[00:13:53] You have to go there.

[00:13:55] That's pretty neat.

[00:13:56] Yeah.

[00:13:57] So is there a single person I can point to?

[00:14:00] Probably not.

[00:14:02] Are there lots of people that I've had

[00:14:05] longstanding relationships with

[00:14:06] that I met while I was traveling?

[00:14:08] Absolutely.

[00:14:09] I would think that that was

[00:14:10] not just seeing all the beautiful

[00:14:12] and intriguing places,

[00:14:13] but I would think that the people

[00:14:15] would be huge as well.

[00:14:17] So that's why I asked.

[00:14:19] I'll tell you an example.

[00:14:20] It's somebody that I wrote that.

[00:14:21] It was one day, one afternoon,

[00:14:23] but I will never forget it.

[00:14:25] I was in Dr. Karda in Indonesia by myself.

[00:14:30] And I was wandering around the streets

[00:14:32] and I happened to like puppets.

[00:14:34] And Indonesia is known for puppetry.

[00:14:38] And I saw this little tiny shop

[00:14:41] and in the window were all of these

[00:14:43] amazing puppets.

[00:14:45] And I'm looking in the window,

[00:14:46] thinking, do I want to go in?

[00:14:48] And the proprietor comes out, beckons me in.

[00:14:52] And I go in and I was actually scared

[00:14:55] I was going to break something.

[00:14:56] There were so many around.

[00:14:57] And you had to go through these

[00:14:59] very little narrow aisles.

[00:15:01] Well, it turns out,

[00:15:03] to make a very long story short,

[00:15:04] that he was the royal puppeteer.

[00:15:08] He gave performances for the royal family

[00:15:11] and once a week on the royal grounds

[00:15:15] for the public.

[00:15:16] And he made all of his own puppets.

[00:15:18] He gave me a personal puppet show, literally.

[00:15:21] I was there for hours and he knew I was interested.

[00:15:25] He showed me how he made the puppets.

[00:15:27] He demonstrated it.

[00:15:29] And he gave me this puppet show.

[00:15:31] And I was mesmerized by it.

[00:15:34] In my mind, I can play back the entire afternoon.

[00:15:37] Wow. Yes.

[00:15:38] Must have impacted you.

[00:15:41] Didn't change my life,

[00:15:43] but the memory of it is so strong

[00:15:46] that I can absolutely close my eyes

[00:15:49] and be back in that little tiny shop.

[00:15:51] So other than that place,

[00:15:52] where are like your favorite place

[00:15:55] of everywhere you've gone?

[00:15:56] Or do you have a favorite?

[00:15:57] As one of my friends who also travels a lot,

[00:16:00] I've stolen the line from her

[00:16:02] is my favorite place

[00:16:04] is wherever I'm going to next.

[00:16:07] I can understand that.

[00:16:09] Yeah.

[00:16:09] So do you go back to these countries

[00:16:11] or once you've went somewhere,

[00:16:13] you just move on?

[00:16:14] Some I go back to frequently

[00:16:17] and some I will never go back to.

[00:16:20] Oh, wow.

[00:16:20] Not because I didn't like them,

[00:16:22] but because I saw them

[00:16:24] when they were pristine and beautiful

[00:16:27] and I know they're overrun with tourists now.

[00:16:29] I saw Venice in 1970

[00:16:33] and Venice in 1970

[00:16:36] from everything I've read and seen

[00:16:38] is not the Venice of 2024.

[00:16:41] Oh.

[00:16:42] And I don't want to see it the way it is now.

[00:16:45] I want to have that pristine image in my mind

[00:16:48] of what Venice was like.

[00:16:50] Now mind you, I go back to Italy.

[00:16:52] Frequently, I love Italy,

[00:16:54] but I will never go back to Venice.

[00:16:56] Wow.

[00:16:56] That's kind of sad

[00:16:57] because that's on my bucket list

[00:16:59] to someday make it there.

[00:17:01] Don't go during tourist season

[00:17:03] is all I can say.

[00:17:04] They're now talking.

[00:17:06] Is there an off season?

[00:17:07] Probably if you go February, March.

[00:17:09] Okay.

[00:17:10] Or November maybe.

[00:17:11] But it's so crowded with tourists.

[00:17:14] I've had people that I know go

[00:17:16] and say they just,

[00:17:18] they went into St. Mark's Square

[00:17:20] which is world renowned

[00:17:22] and they got claustrophobic.

[00:17:24] There were so many people.

[00:17:25] They were scared.

[00:17:25] And these are people who are intrepid travelers.

[00:17:28] Wow.

[00:17:29] But the sheer number of people

[00:17:31] was just overwhelming.

[00:17:34] So to me that's,

[00:17:35] I was there and there were a few people around

[00:17:36] and the gondoliers were chatty

[00:17:39] and wonderful and happy to take you places

[00:17:41] and the water taxis.

[00:17:42] You didn't have to wait online to get on them.

[00:17:45] But it was a whole different experience.

[00:17:47] That's amazing.

[00:17:48] And I have a few other places like that.

[00:17:51] So they're probably also on your bucket list.

[00:17:53] So often quite,

[00:17:54] I don't want to destroy them for you.

[00:17:57] It's not Greece is it?

[00:17:58] Because that's why I want to wait.

[00:18:00] Okay.

[00:18:01] I love Greece.

[00:18:02] I love Greece.

[00:18:03] Yeah. No, no.

[00:18:03] I love Greece.

[00:18:04] So I've read where you said

[00:18:06] you traveled the world and found yourself.

[00:18:08] What does that mean to you?

[00:18:10] Well, I've always been very creative.

[00:18:14] I have a bachelor's and a master's of fine arts.

[00:18:17] I've always been a writer.

[00:18:19] But when I traveled the world,

[00:18:21] what I discovered was almost spiritual

[00:18:26] about understanding about people

[00:18:29] and the world and how it works

[00:18:32] and how I fit into it.

[00:18:34] The world's a very big place.

[00:18:36] And as I said before,

[00:18:36] but people underneath it all want the same thing.

[00:18:41] And I've learned how to have common ground with...

[00:18:45] I can have a conversation with almost anyone,

[00:18:47] almost anywhere below.

[00:18:49] Part of that comes from the traveling.

[00:18:51] Part of it comes from my profession.

[00:18:53] But it gave me the confidence

[00:18:56] to be able to be myself in any situation.

[00:19:01] Does that make any sense whatsoever?

[00:19:04] Yeah, I think it does.

[00:19:06] I'm curious though,

[00:19:07] and I don't want to ask you your religious beliefs

[00:19:09] or anything like that.

[00:19:10] But has it changed your beliefs being exposed

[00:19:14] to so many different people and cultures?

[00:19:16] And...

[00:19:17] Well, I'll tell you what it has changed.

[00:19:19] And it is probably the biggest thing

[00:19:21] I've learned from traveling.

[00:19:23] There is no one answer to anything.

[00:19:27] There's no one right answer to anything.

[00:19:30] There are many, many right answers.

[00:19:33] And what works for one person

[00:19:35] is not necessarily what works for someone else.

[00:19:39] There's no right answers.

[00:19:41] There are many, many right answers.

[00:19:43] There's not one right answer to anything.

[00:19:46] And what you learn is there are many perspectives in the world,

[00:19:52] many ways of thinking about things,

[00:19:54] many ways of doing things.

[00:19:56] And you become far more accepting

[00:20:00] of different ways of doing things.

[00:20:04] Even religion, I have been mesmerized

[00:20:08] by people in religions other than my own,

[00:20:12] see that they are deeply, deeply profoundly impacted

[00:20:18] by their religion.

[00:20:20] And it's made me more open to the fact that

[00:20:24] religion may be a conduit to a higher power

[00:20:28] and everybody's got a different way of going

[00:20:31] and approaching how to connect with that higher power.

[00:20:35] And again, no one answers right.

[00:20:38] That's a pretty awesome thing to learn really.

[00:20:40] Yeah, I was in Tibet

[00:20:43] and I happened to be there during a holy week.

[00:20:46] I did not know that when I was going there.

[00:20:48] And there were hundreds if not thousands of monks.

[00:20:52] And I came across just randomly a scene

[00:20:55] of about probably a hundred monks sitting cross-legged on the floor,

[00:21:01] on the ground chanting.

[00:21:03] It is one of the most overwhelming sensations I've ever had.

[00:21:07] It is the equivalent of being in a cathedral

[00:21:10] listening to a chorus with heavenly music

[00:21:13] or being in a synagogue and listening to the cantor singing

[00:21:19] or being in a Muslim with the call to prayer in the morning

[00:21:24] and how that impacts people.

[00:21:26] It doesn't matter what it is.

[00:21:29] It's all fundamentally how do I connect with a higher power?

[00:21:33] Whatever for my takes.

[00:21:35] Wow, that's pretty awesome.

[00:21:37] It really opens your mind because you truly see that there's

[00:21:41] a lot of ways of being in the world.

[00:21:44] A lot of them and there are no, yeah, there are wrong ways.

[00:21:47] I'll take that one back.

[00:21:48] There are some very wrong ways of being in the world.

[00:21:52] But for most people, that's not the issue.

[00:21:54] It's a very tiny percentage that really are causing all trouble.

[00:21:59] Wow. So I think I read, I'm not sure if I read it or heard it or

[00:22:04] but that you write about all your journeys and journals

[00:22:08] and you've done that since day one, I think?

[00:22:11] Is that correct?

[00:22:13] Since day eight.

[00:22:15] Wow.

[00:22:16] Yeah. My mother had a profound influence on me

[00:22:20] and the first time we ever went, we went to Florida to visit my grandmother

[00:22:24] and she said, okay, you have to write down what we did and what you saw

[00:22:29] because you're going to want to remember that.

[00:22:32] I have that journal and I have pictures of the parrot jungle

[00:22:36] and the this and the that.

[00:22:38] It's written as an eight year old

[00:22:41] and then we went somewhere else.

[00:22:42] My mother again said, you have to write it down.

[00:22:45] Take pic, by then I had a camera.

[00:22:47] Take pictures, write it down and I did.

[00:22:49] She really got me into the habit of it.

[00:22:52] Every personal trip I've taken, not every trip

[00:22:55] because I did a lot of business travel, I just didn't do it

[00:22:58] but every personal trip I have ever taken, I have kept a journal.

[00:23:03] Now I share them on social media and if anybody's interested,

[00:23:08] go to Facebook, go to LinkedIn,

[00:23:11] go to Instagram because they're up there.

[00:23:14] You have your journals up there?

[00:23:15] Is that what you're saying or less like an entry?

[00:23:18] Well, it's an entry for every single day that I travel.

[00:23:21] Oh wow, that's pretty awesome.

[00:23:23] Yeah and again, been doing that my whole life.

[00:23:28] I used to hand write them and then as soon as I switched over

[00:23:32] to writing them on a computer

[00:23:34] but because of my profession, I had a transcriptionist

[00:23:38] and my transcriptionist took all of my handwritten journals

[00:23:43] and transcribed them so I literally have every journal

[00:23:46] from age eight until now on my computer.

[00:23:49] Wow, so I take it there's more books to come.

[00:23:54] Yeah, oh yeah, although the next one's going to be a little bit different.

[00:23:58] Still travel but a little bit different.

[00:24:01] Yeah, it sounds like you should do one on the street art too

[00:24:03] with all the pictures you've taken and...

[00:24:06] Yeah, I don't think I'm ready for that one but this one's...

[00:24:08] Oh okay.

[00:24:10] But this one's another travel book but I'm interviewing people.

[00:24:15] So...

[00:24:15] Oh wow, so when you got to where you traveled regularly for pleasure

[00:24:20] did you get to take your mom with you on some of those trips?

[00:24:23] We did. My mother and I did travel a bit.

[00:24:26] Unfortunately my mother passed away when I was 30.

[00:24:29] Oh sorry, I didn't know.

[00:24:31] So yeah.

[00:24:33] Yeah, I was hoping to travel with you.

[00:24:35] Yeah, so I'm kind of living life my mother wanted.

[00:24:39] Oh wow.

[00:24:40] Which I don't object to but I am living the life she wanted.

[00:24:44] So the mission you're kind of on, I know you love to travel in general

[00:24:48] but you're kind of on a mission to make people more aware

[00:24:51] so that they get out there and travel themselves and enjoy what's out there.

[00:24:56] Isn't that part of the books at least?

[00:25:00] Absolutely and that's one of the reasons that I do a lot of podcasts

[00:25:03] and write a lot of articles and teach classes

[00:25:06] and it's because I truly want people to be inspired to go out and see the world.

[00:25:11] I mean apart from everything else it's just plain fun.

[00:25:14] Forget about everything else, it is great fun.

[00:25:16] You eat interesting food, you see fabulous things,

[00:25:21] you get to experience a whole new culture.

[00:25:24] There's a lot to be said but I think also you come away profoundly changed

[00:25:29] by seeing that the world is very big and has lots of ways of doing things.

[00:25:37] I would think that even some of the and not that we don't have

[00:25:41] lots of poverty in the United States because we do

[00:25:43] but I would think that some of the poverty levels and some of the countries

[00:25:48] would be impacting as well.

[00:25:51] I mean because you can see a beautiful resort right beside people that don't even have a house

[00:25:56] and I know we see that in the United States now too everywhere but it has to impact.

[00:26:03] Oh yeah there's one country in the world that many many people love going to.

[00:26:08] I went once and I had to quit my teeth to go there and that was India

[00:26:12] and there are beautiful things in India and as you said there are beautiful things

[00:26:17] and right next to it is some of the worst poverty on them and it was very difficult

[00:26:23] because you can't help everyone and you'd like to be able to do that not a possibility

[00:26:29] and it's heart wrenching. It is really heart wrenching.

[00:26:33] So you knew that before you went and that's why I knew that.

[00:26:36] Okay that's why you were hesitant to go.

[00:26:39] Yeah yeah and that mind you I've been in other places in India more than anywhere

[00:26:44] else I've ever traveled and I've seen a lot of poverty in South America and Africa

[00:26:49] but nothing like that.

[00:26:51] Wow.

[00:26:51] Nothing like that and it's and to me it was just chaotic.

[00:26:55] Wow so when you were speaking of different cuisine what's I know you've talked about

[00:27:02] the worst meal that you've ever eaten can you tell us about that?

[00:27:07] Oh yeah yeah it was.

[00:27:09] Are you open to eating all different things?

[00:27:12] I mean oh yeah okay.

[00:27:14] Absolutely absolutely I will try almost anything once.

[00:27:19] Some things I have to say that when I was in Peru they eat guinea pigs and yeah

[00:27:27] and I knew that and I had actually been in someone's home and I looked around and I was like oh my

[00:27:31] god in the kitchen there are always 30 little critters running around and then they told me oh

[00:27:36] yeah that's for special meals.

[00:27:38] Where was this at?

[00:27:39] What country?

[00:27:40] In Peru.

[00:27:41] Okay.

[00:27:42] Peru.

[00:27:43] And then I was with a guide for a while and he said oh I'm going to take you for a special dinner.

[00:27:47] I should have known better anyhow we ended up in a restaurant and they came out with the guinea pig

[00:27:57] on a plate with its little beady eyes staring at me and it was like and I can't do it.

[00:28:02] I just can't do it but that was not the worst meal I've ever had mind you.

[00:28:08] That was I took one bite just to be polite and then I said I sorry I can't do it.

[00:28:13] Okay I may have been done.

[00:28:15] Yeah yeah it was tough but the absolute worst meal I ever had I was in Tanzania in Africa

[00:28:23] and I was on a photo safari and we were intense and this was again going back quite a long time

[00:28:30] ago this was not luxury camping.

[00:28:33] We'll start with that not luxury very very bare bones.

[00:28:38] We saw lots of animals it was a great trip but it was really bare bones and we go out on a

[00:28:44] safari and then rather on a looking for animals we come back right at sunset

[00:28:49] and we're all getting ready for dinner and we hear a shriek.

[00:28:54] I was like oh my god an animal must have gone through the campsite.

[00:28:58] No it was our tour guide and he goes to everybody as we come running out.

[00:29:04] It's okay it's okay I'll let you know when dinner is ready.

[00:29:06] Well it ended up that let us start with Tanzanians and western food bear no resemblance to each other

[00:29:16] and what they eat what we are truly worlds apart.

[00:29:20] They eat something that's called ugali which is made from corn maze and that's their staple

[00:29:26] and they add vegetables to it and it's like a stew and sometimes they roll it little balls

[00:29:31] and dip it in things but that's what they eat.

[00:29:35] He had asked them to prepare like a three course meal and the first course was going to be

[00:29:41] cheese and sardines and crackers and I forget what else but think of appetizers.

[00:29:49] Then we were going to have noodles with I don't know tuna fish or something on it

[00:29:54] but like a noodle castle and then for dessert we were going to have tinned fruit with condensed milk

[00:30:01] they were all in a single bowl.

[00:30:04] They again had no idea that this was three separate things so we had noodles with sardines

[00:30:14] and with everything else mixed in with the tinned fruit with the syrup

[00:30:18] and then decorating it was the sardines very carefully placed around it to form a pattern

[00:30:25] and the sardine oil drizzled over it and the condensed milk drizzled over it.

[00:30:31] Yeah and we all looked at it and went is there anything else we can eat

[00:30:37] and the answer was no so we were sitting there pulling things out and cleaning them off

[00:30:43] and eating one bite at a time because it's just ghastly.

[00:30:47] Yeah I don't know how you did that.

[00:30:49] If you're hungry and you know that there is no other food you eat it.

[00:30:54] Wow.

[00:30:55] But that's always the meal that comes to mind as the worst meal I've ever had

[00:30:59] it was needless to say memorable.

[00:31:03] Yeah I think that one would be hard to forget.

[00:31:06] Yeah sometimes the things that go wrong are the most memorable things good things as well.

[00:31:14] True but speaking of things that have gone wrong have you ever gone to a place and gotten

[00:31:19] lost? Oh god.

[00:31:20] There and was that good or it was a good experience?

[00:31:24] I don't mind getting lost.

[00:31:25] I don't actually mind getting lost.

[00:31:27] You make it a good experience?

[00:31:29] Sometimes I do a deliberate.

[00:31:31] Oh wow.

[00:31:32] Yeah that I'm known for doing that and I have a very good sense of direction

[00:31:37] but I have gotten lost and as I said I always have if I'm going somewhere

[00:31:43] I have it written out so I can show it to people.

[00:31:47] I mean I went to Japan when I was in my early 20s

[00:31:50] at a time when there was no English anywhere even in Tokyo much less in small towns which was mostly

[00:31:58] where I was traveling and I managed to get around and did I get lost?

[00:32:04] Oh yes I did.

[00:32:05] Were people very kind unbelievably so I had my little hand written thing

[00:32:11] and people would sometimes lead literally lead me to where I was going.

[00:32:17] Because they give me directions I no idea what they were talking about.

[00:32:20] They would and then they would point and they would go

[00:32:23] two blocks that way they'd go right and go three blocks and I'm going

[00:32:30] I'm never gonna find this so they would start to walk me there and then they'd find someone else.

[00:32:35] Are you going in that direction and the next person would walk me?

[00:32:39] So yeah I've gotten lost but those are the times when you find out how nice people are

[00:32:44] and I'll tell you what that's done for me.

[00:32:46] I happen to live in Manhattan and I live not far from Lincoln Center

[00:32:51] and there are lots of tourists in the area and if I see somebody who looks like they're lost

[00:32:55] or they're looking at a map on their phone I will walk up to them and say

[00:32:59] and I help you.

[00:33:01] What are you looking for?

[00:33:03] And I've actually had some funny experiences with that and this

[00:33:06] recently happened I had a couple and they clearly looked like they were lost

[00:33:11] and I said what are you looking for?

[00:33:13] We're looking for the Met and I said the Metropolitan Opera it's right behind you.

[00:33:18] No we're looking for the Metropolitan Museum.

[00:33:21] Oh okay that's on the other side of town let me take you to the bus and it'll get you right there

[00:33:27] because again they must have said how do I get to the Met

[00:33:29] and somebody thought Metropolitan Opera okay they were there just the wrong Met.

[00:33:34] Right well it's wonderful that you help anybody you see

[00:33:39] because I know what it's like to be lost somewhere that's for sure.

[00:33:44] Yeah.

[00:33:45] So have you been to every state in the United States then?

[00:33:49] Oh yeah oh yeah and every province in Canada.

[00:33:53] Oh wow.

[00:33:54] Yes yes I have.

[00:33:56] So I have to ask just on a like I live in Indiana have you ever been

[00:34:02] well I guess you have been to Indiana so what did you find?

[00:34:06] Well I have a nephew who is a professor

[00:34:09] and his wife's also a professor in Bloomington

[00:34:11] so I actually go out there fairly often.

[00:34:14] So and they've taken me to a bunch of places and I can't remember the name of the town

[00:34:19] but there's a fabulous town in Indiana that has sculpt that has architecture

[00:34:25] that I can't remember the name of it but it's an amazing town that has modern architecture.

[00:34:31] Wow.

[00:34:32] Yeah and you don't know about it oh you have to go you have to go.

[00:34:37] That's why I'm asking you because I'm wondering what's in Indiana

[00:34:40] besides religion.

[00:34:42] No it's really really wonderful there was a benefactor

[00:34:46] who decided that the town needed really good architecture he was into architecture

[00:34:51] and he paid if they agreed to build it he would pay for world-renowned architects

[00:35:00] to draw up the plans to whatever they wanted and their price point

[00:35:05] Wow.

[00:35:06] And it has some of the best modern architecture in the country and it's a cluster of it

[00:35:11] they must have 30 or 40 buildings they have a church that is spectacular.

[00:35:15] Wow I'm trying to imagine what this is yeah have you ever come to Brown County?

[00:35:21] Yeah I don't know county names that one I don't know what's in breath.

[00:35:25] Okay well Brown County you would it's a major tourism thing in the fall

[00:35:29] it's the park and the trees and hills and it's just gorgeous

[00:35:33] but it's in southern Indiana so I just wondered if they'd ever had you there.

[00:35:38] Yeah no that I haven't but we went to there's another one that used to be one of the biggest

[00:35:45] resort towns in the Midwest people would come down from Chicago and they used to have a huge

[00:35:51] velodrome where they do bicycle racing and they refurbished the main building

[00:35:57] and it's now got beautiful restaurants in it I'm not I may be a hotel

[00:36:01] and it's got this glass domed roof over the main part of the hotel it's absolutely beautiful.

[00:36:08] It sounds beautiful yeah I usually if I get a day off I usually head to Michigan

[00:36:13] because they have lakes so yeah.

[00:36:17] Yeah right well you have to check out these two I will send you the names of both of these places

[00:36:25] I will. Yes please do because it's amazing to me that I think it's the case for a lot of people

[00:36:31] but the things that are closest to you you don't even realize and so we're always looking outward

[00:36:37] like oh I want to go here I want to go there but we don't even know what's

[00:36:41] you know next door so to speak so. I told you I was writing an article about overcoming fear

[00:36:46] of travel right my first suggestion is take a map draw a hundred mile radius around where you live

[00:36:55] and look for all the interesting places that are within that hundred miles

[00:36:58] which is probably a two three hour drive you'll be astounded by how much there is

[00:37:05] and I can you can do that almost anywhere in the country that's pretty amazing

[00:37:09] there are probably a few places that doesn't work but for most places

[00:37:13] you could spend weeks and weeks going to interesting places that are within a hundred miles radius

[00:37:20] that's pretty amazing so if cost were not an issue I have to ask you where would you want to live

[00:37:27] if you could live anywhere in the world New York would it be New York that's what I was going to

[00:37:31] ask yeah absolutely wow I mean I go up in New York my family is here my friends are here

[00:37:37] I'm not moving and it's a great okay where would you want to visit repeatedly well I go to London

[00:37:46] frequently because I've a lot of friends there because I live there but there are places that

[00:37:50] I would love to go that I have not gotten to one of them was going to be my 70th birthday trip

[00:37:57] but I did not get there because it was right smack in the middle of COVID and that is

[00:38:02] to the Pacific Islands I want to go to Polynesia not to the well-known islands but some of the lesser

[00:38:09] ones like the Cook Islands wow that's very very high on my list and clearly I could not go during

[00:38:16] COVID so that's good to be so that's not on your plans for this year you said you had a

[00:38:21] no no it isn't and I also go to Ghana Ghana is very high on my list for a very long story

[00:38:27] reason why but Ghana is on it and Malta is on it and those are places I haven't been to so wow that's

[00:38:35] kind of neat that you've been so many places and yet you still have a bucket list of other places

[00:38:40] you might go to oh yeah that's great oh my list never gets shorter it only gets longer and people

[00:38:48] will say to me well but you've already been there I said wait a minute that's like saying I came

[00:38:53] to the United States I went to Las Vegas New York and Los Angeles have you seen the United States

[00:39:01] no I've seen New York and Las Vegas and off the top of my head I could tell you 20 other places

[00:39:06] in the States that would be astounding for you to go visit same thing with anywhere else you go

[00:39:13] you haven't seen it because you've set foot on right yeah there's plenty of places in the U.S.

[00:39:19] that are on my bucket list too so oh yeah absolutely yeah the United States is fabulous every 10 years

[00:39:27] since I was 30 I celebrate I don't celebrate the rest of the birthdays I don't care but every 10

[00:39:34] years I have a huge celebration for my birthday and I travel and I spent three months in Indonesia

[00:39:43] and get the idea well for my 50th birthday I decided I was going to take the year off

[00:39:50] and travel around the U.S. and I did that it ended up getting cut short because it was 2001

[00:40:01] and we know what happened right so I came back specifically because with the kind of work I do

[00:40:08] I was actually asked to help do some things to help New York recover from 9-11 right the reason I did it

[00:40:16] is because I had mostly been to cities in the United States and I said I want to see the national

[00:40:23] parks I want to see small towns I want to travel to all the places that I would not normally get

[00:40:30] to and I didn't go to every single state but I went to a lot of them and just had a fabulous

[00:40:36] time I mean the country has got so much to this is one of the most beautiful countries on the planet

[00:40:42] oh yeah it absolutely is and you don't have to go overseas and if you include Canada

[00:40:48] you could do that for the rest of your life and have just a fabulous time and see spectacular

[00:40:55] that's very true yeah I haven't seen much of Canada but what I've seen has been beautiful

[00:41:00] oh yeah it's a gorgeous country it really is but again you don't have to go very far

[00:41:08] to have an adventure and you don't have to go very far to feel like you've traveled to a different

[00:41:13] place and there's a lot of different cultures in the U.S. we've become a bit more homogenized

[00:41:19] but boy not so much as you think I was recently down in Louisiana and everybody thinks New

[00:41:28] Orleans and New Orleans is fabulous do not get me wrong I love New Orleans but western Louisiana

[00:41:34] is a whole different world it's an absolutely whole different world that's Cajun country and it is

[00:41:41] amazing and the food is fabulous and the Chois de Vieve is truly there there's music everywhere

[00:41:48] there's dancing everywhere people are extraordinarily friendly and it's a completely different

[00:41:54] culture completely and people go down to New Orleans and think they've been in Louisiana no they've

[00:42:02] been in New Orleans that's true you don't really think about getting away from these big touristy

[00:42:09] spots I mean we all want to see what everyone's told us about but there's a lot more to it than

[00:42:16] that that's for sure right yeah and I understand why people do it and I and I'm not suggesting

[00:42:21] that you shouldn't go see New Orleans because it's wonderful but it's not the only place to go see

[00:42:28] right there's surprises even there in New Orleans or very close to it one of the reasons I go to

[00:42:34] western Louisiana I have very good friends and one of my trips to New Orleans not the most recent one

[00:42:41] my friend came to spend time with me and then he said I'm going to take you somewhere that

[00:42:46] I'm sure you've never been to okay didn't tell me where we're going turns out that there is a

[00:42:54] massive Vietnamese community just outside of New Orleans that has some of the most authentic

[00:43:02] Vietnamese food that you're gonna find anywhere in the world outside of Vietnam and it's a huge

[00:43:09] fishing community and they came over after the war because it was a very similar environment

[00:43:15] if you were a fisherman to what it's like in Vietnam so it was a really good fit and there's this

[00:43:22] massive community down there wow that's something I've never heard about I hadn't either there are

[00:43:28] lots of surprises very true so one thing I have to ask you is I read about when you were in

[00:43:35] Indonesia is that you became a translator even though you only spoke English oh no that was

[00:43:41] actually in Singapore oh okay and I only speak English well I was running a meeting

[00:43:48] and it was people from an organization all over Asia now they all spoke English but it was their

[00:43:55] second language every single person in the room and so I started the meeting and I had everybody

[00:44:02] introduced themselves and I think there were maybe 14 people in the room first person

[00:44:08] gets up and he explains what he does and where he's from everybody looks at me going what did he

[00:44:13] just say nobody could understand his accent at all I think it was who I don't remember where it's from

[00:44:20] nobody could understand so I repeated what he said and they all understand American accents

[00:44:26] because they've seen American movies they've seen American TV so they could all understand me

[00:44:32] next person gets up and she introduces herself and they all look at me what did she just say

[00:44:39] so I interpret and I tell them what she just said and this went on the entire meeting I've never

[00:44:46] been so exhausted in my life I mean because I was running the meeting and translating English to

[00:44:52] English and the meeting interestingly enough was all about communications because they were having

[00:44:59] troubles and I said okay I now know what their trouble is so the next morning came into the room

[00:45:07] and I said the first thing we're going to do today is play a game and we as kids everybody in America

[00:45:13] plays this game it's called telephone and I had whispered into the first person's ear

[00:45:20] something and said now you repeat that to the next person well of course by time it came

[00:45:26] around the room it bore no resemblance whatsoever to what we started out with and I said okay

[00:45:34] not I was looking around and not one of you asked the person to repeat it even though you probably

[00:45:41] didn't understand it said that is lesson number one if you don't ask them to repeat it you

[00:45:49] can apologize it's not a bad thing to do because otherwise there's always going to be miscommunications

[00:45:57] that's why and after that the meeting got a lot easier I was just curious what that was about

[00:46:05] that's a pretty funny story really and there's a lesson in everything right yeah so oh yeah oh yeah

[00:46:15] so I would love for you to tell us some things about your books because we haven't really talked

[00:46:20] about them a whole lot yet well the first book took me forever to write because I had been writing

[00:46:25] stories about travel for years and I was part of a writing group and they all said these are

[00:46:33] such great stories you have to put them in a book and I was working and said yeah well

[00:46:40] I know but that's a lot of work and I'm already busy and then as I started to get

[00:46:46] nearer to when I was going to retire I decided that yeah I really should put him into a book

[00:46:53] and what the book is I took all the stories and said how do I tell something that's

[00:47:00] cohesive that makes sense to people and they it takes you around the world and it's done

[00:47:07] chronologically from my very first trips as a child when we my family family trips right through

[00:47:15] the last trip I took I came back to New York on March 20th 2020 which was the last day

[00:47:23] that regular flights came into the U.S. before during COVID right it was literally the last day

[00:47:31] and the way the book is set up you can read it straight through I've had people say well

[00:47:38] I've read the places that I really want to go see and read those first and then somebody else said to

[00:47:44] me I've read all places that I've been to because I wanted to see what your experiences were compared

[00:47:49] to my so you can pick it up put it down they're fun stories and you'll learn a lot about me

[00:47:56] because it's partially it's my travels so you're gonna learn a lot about me but it's also a lot about

[00:48:03] the places the second book and that came out in 2021 the second book was very fast that I could

[00:48:13] not believe how fast I wrote actually that one was written because people were saying I love

[00:48:20] the book I mean I got a very large fan base from the book and from my social media entries

[00:48:27] I bet and they were saying to me they have such great stories you gotta write another book I'm sure

[00:48:33] you've got more stories yeah what do I write about and they said well we love your food

[00:48:39] stories everybody loves food stories write more food stories and you've been to some of the

[00:48:43] most remote corners of the globe write about some of the places that I will never get to

[00:48:50] I want to read about them and then the third thing they wanted was what you'd said before

[00:48:55] who are some of the really extraordinary people that you've met right whether they had an impact on

[00:49:00] me or not was not the point but really unusual people and so I wrote about that and so this

[00:49:06] one is called wanderlust the first one was called travelmania stories of wanderlust and

[00:49:12] this is wanderlust extraordinary people quirky places and curious cuisine so there's a very big

[00:49:19] emphasis on people places and food so and again you can read it straight through or you can pick

[00:49:25] out a place or a topic that you think is really interesting and read about that yeah they both

[00:49:31] sound great and you said there's another one coming there is another one coming I am working

[00:49:36] on it right now that's awesome this one won't be as fast as the last one because I'm getting

[00:49:42] because now I'm getting asked to write articles quite frequently and so instead of writing the book

[00:49:49] I'm writing some articles but some of them may find their way into the book that's awesome so

[00:49:53] where can people find your books if they want to pretty much anywhere anywhere they are on amazon

[00:49:59] they are on barns noble if you go into any bookstore they can order them these are not

[00:50:04] self published they are published by an independent press and they have very very

[00:50:10] wide distribution so you really can get it just about anywhere that's awesome and your articles

[00:50:15] where can they find you do you have a blog or is it articles well the best place to find

[00:50:21] links to them is go on to my social media okay I will say I have a website I have been terrible

[00:50:27] about keeping it up that's one of those things that I keep saying I must go do

[00:50:31] I thought that somehow always gets to the bottom of the list so are you on all the big social media

[00:50:38] absolutely okay I'm on Facebook I'm on Instagram I'm on LinkedIn I'm on X I am not on TikTok or

[00:50:46] any of those but right under my name Karen Gershawitz and you can find me I am there and

[00:50:52] I leave it open to the public it's not a closed social media group that's wonderful and yeah

[00:50:58] and anything you send me I'll put in the show notes so that people can click right on it and get to

[00:51:03] you because I'm sure they're going to want to follow your adventures they're quite fascinating

[00:51:08] really yes one of those things and I say this all the time to people and I'm going to

[00:51:15] preface this with something I have a very bad back I recently had spinal surgery

[00:51:20] I've got massive problems with it it has not stopped me from traveling

[00:51:24] and it will not stop me from traveling but I honestly don't know how much longer I can travel

[00:51:30] I'm hoping until I can travel no more but I'm very glad that I started when we started

[00:51:37] and it's never too late and it's never too late and it's one of the things that I know

[00:51:42] I'm never going to look back and say I wish I had because I started early and really followed

[00:51:48] my passion but I've gotten people who are 60 to travel for the first time became absolutely enamored

[00:51:57] of it and are now traveling as much as they possibly can wow yeah so have you ever met anyone

[00:52:04] that's had such extensive traveling that as you oh I know do you have people one of my close

[00:52:10] friends has traveled more than I have oh wow a lot more than I have but she was in the travel

[00:52:16] industry so does she write books also or no no no that's pretty amazing how much I can't imagine

[00:52:25] somebody having traveled more oh yeah you'd be surprised there's people have the 100 country goal

[00:52:32] which I will get to I'm actually at 90 95 at the moment yeah the only reason that I know that

[00:52:37] was when I was getting the book published I had a publicist and they said so how many countries

[00:52:42] have you been to and I said I don't know I'll have to make a list I made the list

[00:52:49] and then low and behold it's like at that point it was 90 now it's 95 but amazing thing I was

[00:52:55] thinking of earlier and this is just completely sidebar but if you've gone to 90 countries and

[00:53:01] you've repeated some trips and then you're taking all these I mean I just can't imagine

[00:53:06] how much traveling you've actually done because it's way more than 90 trips right oh yeah you know

[00:53:13] yeah so it's just amazing and you did this in I don't know how many decades of time

[00:53:21] have you been traveling five five decades wow yeah but again a lot of it I was traveling for business

[00:53:29] I changed my career first to make money and then once I realized that I was in a career

[00:53:34] that if I played it right I could do international work I did everything in my power to do international

[00:53:42] work so I could have people put pain for my travel wow that's pretty ingenious yeah and so that was a

[00:53:51] big deal and it gave me lots and lots of miles so I was traveling on miles when I was traveling on

[00:53:57] my own so I wasn't paying exorbitant airfares wow yeah I heard you say that you're retired

[00:54:03] now so how has that changed I mean do you travel on a budget now or do you still

[00:54:09] do whatever you want to do when you go on the trips or I never was extravagant I was never

[00:54:14] interested in five-star hotels right I just want a nice clean safe place to sleep that's one of

[00:54:21] the things that everybody surprised about is that I used to travel when I had no money at all

[00:54:26] I mean I went to Japan when I had no money at all and I figured out a way to do it

[00:54:32] it was so important to me that I figured out a way to do it no matter what and I was again not

[00:54:40] terribly interested in I don't care about going to luxurious hotels I don't care about eating at

[00:54:48] five-star restaurants that to me is far less interesting than getting on a bus and having a

[00:54:56] great conversation so it's a different way of traveling right and people say to me yeah but

[00:55:02] it's so expensive think about that hundred mile radius when I was grounded during the last

[00:55:08] chapter of the second book is when I was grounded in New York City during COVID and I started

[00:55:15] just exploring everything that I could possibly explore in the area because I'm curious and because

[00:55:21] sitting at home was not even a possibility and I have to tell you I discovered more interesting

[00:55:28] places that were within an hour of where I live that I never knew about I just never knew about

[00:55:37] and these were places not museums because everything was closed but parks that were phenomenal

[00:55:45] neighborhoods that I'd never been to that were really interesting street art everywhere

[00:55:52] all of these things and I got on this quest to go see Manhattan from every conceivable angle

[00:55:59] so I was going over to Brooklyn and New Jersey and Westchester every possible way

[00:56:04] to see what Manhattan looked like from different perspectives because I'm also a photographer

[00:56:10] and taking photographs and it became a quest just to go do that and again I found amazing places

[00:56:18] just doing that that I never knew about and I am a native New Yorker lived most of my air my life

[00:56:26] either in or very near to New York City wow that's pretty amazing well I have a kid that her

[00:56:32] bucket list is to go see the Statue of Liberty so if we ever head that way I will ask you for tips

[00:56:40] absolutely be more than I know New York really well so I'm sure you do especially after COVID

[00:56:48] but even more yeah yeah yeah so is there anything that we haven't talked about today

[00:56:55] that you would want to make sure that the listeners heard well my final thing is get out

[00:57:00] there and try it if you're scared of it put aside the fears it is safer than you think

[00:57:07] just have a little common sense start local and if you are oh I do have one other tip if you want to

[00:57:14] go overseas and you're afraid to go by yourself so you want to go with a group absolutely do that

[00:57:21] but don't go with a large group find a small group if you go with a large group

[00:57:29] you go into places and first of all you're only going to talk with other Americans

[00:57:34] the second thing is you're going to overwhelm places you walk in somewhere and if there's 50

[00:57:41] people getting off a bus it's all Americans in a place that's geared up to serve 50 people at once

[00:57:50] right go with a group that's 15 or 20 people you'll have a much better experience

[00:57:55] and there are lots and lots of them and surprisingly they're not much more expensive than going with a

[00:58:04] very large group wow which does surprise people yeah but they in fact are not you can look for deals

[00:58:11] that are very very reasonable sounds great particularly if you can go off season if you have to go

[00:58:17] when everybody else is going it will be more expensive but that's true for any tour that

[00:58:22] you would take but if you can go a little bit off season the prices drop significantly for everything

[00:58:28] that's very true I tend to not travel at all during July I stay home because that's when things

[00:58:35] are most expensive right I don't necessarily go Christmas or Easter or spring break

[00:58:41] those are the times when things with a price go way up but if you've got kids

[00:58:45] you don't have a choice right but to that point everybody with kids is out and about at that time

[00:58:52] because that's the only time they have to travel as a family so yep depending upon where you live

[00:58:58] I know that in Indiana the semester starts early and it ends early right right so you start

[00:59:06] you know like middle of August well in New York they don't start until middle of September

[00:59:12] wow okay so I always tell people from New York wait until the very end go then

[00:59:18] because there can be fewer people and conversely for you the kids in New York don't get off till

[00:59:23] the end of June and that's true for a lot of school systems but a lot of school systems as in

[00:59:29] Indiana get off in May right very end of May which means May and June is right so the end

[00:59:37] of May into June perfect time to go fewer people around and the weather will be nicer

[00:59:41] that's very true I didn't realize it was that difference yep I mean I knew people had spring

[00:59:48] break at different times but I had no clue when New York's was so that's very good to know

[00:59:52] yeah New York starts the week after Labor Day okay and it ends the last week in June

[00:59:58] it's pretty amazing well I thank you for being with me today I mean your travels are

[01:00:02] fascinating and hearing about the travel is awesome but hearing about your experiences

[01:00:08] and how it's impacted you it's just absolutely amazing to me so well it's great talking with you

[01:00:15] it's fun say I'm here so thanks for having me absolutely thank you for being here take care

[01:00:22] take care bye bye as we wrap up today's episode I hope Karen sharing her knowledge experience

[01:00:28] and wisdom has helped you in some way I love Karen's stories of chatting with the locals to what she

[01:00:34] describes as her worst meal ever though if it were me I think maybe the guinea pig meal might

[01:00:40] have been the worst I don't know one thing that stood out to me is how Karen emphasized

[01:00:48] to draw a hundred mile radius around your home on a map and go exploring you know sometimes

[01:00:55] actually many times we don't even know what's in our own backyard so to speak

[01:00:59] and additionally she mentioned how just exploring the United States and Canada could fill a lifetime of

[01:01:05] travel adventures so she definitely made me want to start saving up for another trip

[01:01:11] what stood out to you I would love to hear from you as always I hope this episode helps at

[01:01:16] least one person and with that I hope you have a blessed week my friend

[01:01:20] thank you for listening to the beauty and the mess if you enjoyed what you heard please share it

[01:01:29] with a friend and if you haven't already please subscribe rate and review this podcast on your

[01:01:34] favorite pod player if you have any questions or comments any topic ideas you would like to hear

[01:01:39] about or you think you would be a great guest on the show you can reach me directly at the

[01:01:44] beautyandthemess.com thanks for listening