Ep. 67 Kari Schwear's Journey Out Of The Gray Area

[00:00:06] I'm Michele Simms and this is The Beauty in the Mess, a community where people who crave a shift in mindset, personal growth, and connection to like-minded people come together to start rewriting their stories.

[00:00:17] Through engaging, honest, and insightful conversations, the show will help you embrace the mess to recognize the meanings and the lessons it holds and discover its hidden treasures to help you start making a mindset shift.

[00:00:29] Let's listen, learn, and reclaim who we were meant to be.

[00:00:33] Hi friend, welcome to The Beauty in the Mess. For this episode, I'm welcoming Kari Schwears to the show.

[00:00:40] Kari delves into the concept of gray area drinking where individuals are neither social drinkers nor alcoholics but they still struggle with moderate alcohol use.

[00:00:50] And Kari emphasizes the importance of individuals regulating their emotions to make lasting changes to overcome these gray areas which could be more than just alcohol, could be anything really.

[00:01:02] Kari's a great way to be able to help you.

[00:01:03] She also shares insights on the transformative power of breath work and the integral role of faith in her journey.

[00:01:09] Kari is an executive lifestyle gray area coach specializing in many gray areas we have in our lives, particularly with gray area drinking.

[00:01:19] Her zone of genius is in habit creation, communication, leadership development, and intentional living by design.

[00:01:26] As a former gray area drinker, Kari founded Gray Tonic and the Question the Drink movement in 2018 after her own experience of living in the gray led her to the service of others.

[00:01:39] She offers individual and group coaching for business leaders seeking wellness, performance, and better relationships without alcohol.

[00:01:46] Kari has also co-authored two books, The Successful Mind, Tools for Living a Purposeful, Productive, and Happy Life, along with her second book, Limitless, a Wall Street Journal No. 1 bestseller.

[00:01:59] So join me for episode 67 of The Beauty and the Mess called Kari Schwer's Journey Out of the Gray Area.

[00:02:06] So without further ado, let's dive right into today's conversation.

[00:02:11] Hi Kari, welcome to The Beauty and the Mess.

[00:02:14] I'm so glad to have you with me today.

[00:02:15] Oh, thanks Michelle.

[00:02:17] I'm really excited to be here today.

[00:02:18] Oh, absolutely.

[00:02:20] Now, I know you're a coach and an author among many other things, but before we kind of dig into all of that, I was wondering if you would tell us some of your personal story.

[00:02:28] Like what's led you down the path that you're on right now?

[00:02:31] You know, it's a question I get asked a lot and it's always interested me how I even got here because this was not part of my plan.

[00:02:38] And I always say that my plan is a plan and God's plan is the plan.

[00:02:43] And he had another plan for me based on what was to come.

[00:02:46] And I found myself in a downward spiral with my career at the time.

[00:02:52] I found myself drinking more than I intended to.

[00:02:55] My marriage was okay.

[00:02:58] Wasn't great.

[00:02:59] You know, I'm married now currently 35 years.

[00:03:02] So this is going back 10 years.

[00:03:03] So 25 years into a long-term marriage.

[00:03:05] And you start to hit those rough patches.

[00:03:08] The kids were getting older, moving out, and things were changing.

[00:03:11] I'm going into my 40s, heading through pre-menopause, like all the things, right?

[00:03:15] All the things.

[00:03:17] Very deeply unhappy and not even knowing it.

[00:03:19] Looked the part on the outside world, but certainly wasn't feeling it on the inside.

[00:03:24] And my drinking was on the uptick.

[00:03:27] So that was probably the easiest thing for me to start asking questions like,

[00:03:32] why am I not happy?

[00:03:34] And oh my gosh, am I drinking too much?

[00:03:35] And could I be an alcoholic?

[00:03:37] Is that a thing?

[00:03:39] Like what?

[00:03:40] Like, could that be me?

[00:03:41] And having all these internal questions inside of my head and conversations led me to

[00:03:46] start exploring that.

[00:03:48] What does that mean?

[00:03:49] And in 2014, I asked one of my patients, I was in the medical field at the time,

[00:03:54] who was a substance abuse counselor.

[00:03:57] I said, hey, one of my friends is drinking wine quite a bit and I'm concerned.

[00:04:02] How do I know if she's got a problem?

[00:04:04] And of course she knew it was me, but we played the whole charade part.

[00:04:07] She leaned really close to me and said, you can tell your friend if she thinks it's a

[00:04:12] problem, it's a problem.

[00:04:14] Oh, wow.

[00:04:15] And I said, oh, I said, okay, well, thanks for letting me know.

[00:04:18] I'll talk to her about it.

[00:04:20] And I knew at that point that if I had already started believing that my drinking was becoming

[00:04:24] a problem, then for sure it was a problem at that point.

[00:04:27] And again, I didn't know what to do.

[00:04:29] So I went the only route I knew in 2016 is when I quit.

[00:04:33] I made that decision.

[00:04:34] And the only thing that society told us is that if you're drinking more than you should,

[00:04:41] you must be an alcoholic and you go to AA.

[00:04:44] And so that's what I did.

[00:04:46] And I love the program.

[00:04:47] I think it's a great program.

[00:04:48] I think every human could benefit going through a 12-step program.

[00:04:51] I think it's extremely thorough and it's difficult.

[00:04:55] It makes one dive deep on themselves.

[00:04:58] And I respect the program, but it was not a good fit for me.

[00:05:01] I did not see myself as an alcoholic.

[00:05:04] I didn't know what I was, but I did not resonate with saying, hi, I'm Carrie and I'm an alcoholic.

[00:05:09] And it wasn't until two years later, I heard the term gray area drinking, ironically on a podcast.

[00:05:17] And I was like, oh my gosh, I think that's what I was.

[00:05:24] And at that point I decided I needed to start sharing what that was.

[00:05:28] And I quit my six-figure job and started my own business.

[00:05:32] And here we are.

[00:05:33] So I'm six years later.

[00:05:34] That's an amazing journey.

[00:05:36] Now, I know you call yourself a gray area expert, but what does that mean as far as drinking?

[00:05:42] I know it's obviously in between alcoholic and not drinking, but.

[00:05:46] Yeah.

[00:05:47] Yeah, it's a really good question.

[00:05:48] So the gray areas actually encompass more than just drinking.

[00:05:52] The gray areas can affect our career, our health, our relationships.

[00:05:56] It affects every crucial part in our life where we appear things might be okay, but they're not.

[00:06:03] So it's not horrible.

[00:06:04] There's no rock bottom.

[00:06:06] Perhaps things are starting to come undone a little bit, but there's no significant rock bottom moment where someone's being forced to change.

[00:06:16] You are in the gray, which is a choice to be there.

[00:06:20] It's a choice to remain in a career that you're not happy.

[00:06:23] It's a choice to remain in a relationship where you're not being fulfilled, but you don't want to do anything to fix it or work on it.

[00:06:31] It's a choice when you are gaining weight and feeling sluggish, and it's a choice not to work out and eat healthy.

[00:06:39] Those are all choices that we make.

[00:07:11] You drink seven standard drinks in one week, and for men it's double.

[00:07:16] But when we talk about moderate drinking, that's not to be confused with healthy drinking.

[00:07:22] That means that you are in a moderate level, one drink per day, let's say, or two drinks a couple times a week.

[00:07:28] The problem with that statement and that kind of guidelines, if you will, is that very few people really know what a standard drink is.

[00:07:37] A drink size, rather, a standard drink size.

[00:07:39] And for wine, which was my jam, it's five ounces.

[00:07:44] And if whoever's listening right now, the listener, if you go to your kitchen and get out a measuring cup and put five ounces of fluid into a measuring cup and then pour that in a wine glass, you're going to be shocked how little it is.

[00:07:57] Because I guarantee that's not what someone's pouring.

[00:08:00] They're pouring closer to eight ounces or even nine ounces and calling it one glass.

[00:08:05] So for me, that was my story.

[00:08:06] I was drinking closer to eight or nine glasses, and then I'd pour two of them and say, well, I only had two glasses of wine when it was more like a little over three.

[00:08:13] And there's four glasses in a bottle, 4.5 glasses in a bottle.

[00:08:18] So you can see where this starts to lead.

[00:08:20] So we're not being honest with ourselves.

[00:08:23] So the gray area is a definite place where one will get to where they have a choice.

[00:08:30] They get to decide, do I want to remain in this gray area and continue the way that I am, whether it's drinking, your health, your relationship, your career, whatever.

[00:08:41] Or do I want to do something different?

[00:08:44] And gray area drinking can look so normal from the outside.

[00:08:48] But the biggest indicator, Michelle, honestly, is the person already knows.

[00:08:53] I knew for two years I had those questions.

[00:08:55] I told you I was questioning already.

[00:08:57] You know, am I drinking too much?

[00:08:59] Could I possibly be an alcoholic?

[00:09:01] What does even that mean?

[00:09:02] What are the guidelines for being an alcoholic?

[00:09:04] And ironically, I took a test when I went to see a substance abuse counselor shortly thereafter.

[00:09:12] And the test that they give you is such an old standardized test that, you know, you answer two questions or three questions out of 10 that are yes, then you're an alcoholic.

[00:09:22] Oh, wow.

[00:09:22] And that's simply not the case for many people.

[00:09:26] Many people, 75 million Americans plus, this is according to a recent study done last year, 75 million Americans identify as a gray area drinker that know what gray area drinking is.

[00:09:41] Imagine the millions of people that have never heard the term.

[00:09:44] Somebody listening right now is probably like, oh, my gosh, I've never heard that term.

[00:09:47] That makes so much sense.

[00:09:48] Oh, my gosh, I'm in a gray area.

[00:09:50] I have trouble saying no to that second or third drink.

[00:09:53] And sometimes I don't know when to stop.

[00:09:55] And yeah, I might have one or two or three glasses every night.

[00:09:59] And wow, maybe I am pouring more than five ounces of wine.

[00:10:02] Maybe I am doing a couple more mixed drinks than I should on the weekend.

[00:10:06] And only that person knows.

[00:10:08] I mean, I worked in the medical field.

[00:10:10] I'd lie through my teeth to my doctors.

[00:10:12] Like, do you drink?

[00:10:13] Oh, no, just socially, like here and there.

[00:10:16] When I was having a couple glasses every night, right?

[00:10:19] Right.

[00:10:20] But I wasn't physically dependent on it.

[00:10:22] I wasn't severely abusing, but I was abusing.

[00:10:25] Absolutely.

[00:10:26] I was most likely more in the mild.

[00:10:30] There's the three categories, mild, moderate and severe.

[00:10:33] And I was definitely in that mild category of alcohol abuse disorder.

[00:10:38] Absolutely.

[00:10:39] So I heard you say you were in that phase for like two years, right?

[00:10:43] Two years.

[00:10:44] Yeah, two years.

[00:10:45] Two years is a magical thing, which is very interesting.

[00:10:50] It's a magical number.

[00:10:52] Most of my clients that I work with are closer to my age.

[00:10:56] I'm in my middle 50s, late 50s, I should say now.

[00:10:59] Goodness gracious.

[00:11:00] And most of my clients own a business or they're an executive and they're not going to AA and

[00:11:07] they realize that they might have, they're using alcohol to cope through their day.

[00:11:11] Just like I did.

[00:11:12] I really didn't like my job at the time.

[00:11:14] I really wasn't happy in my marriage.

[00:11:16] I really didn't like the person in the mirror.

[00:11:18] I didn't like how my body was starting to change.

[00:11:21] I was in a downward spiral, but I wasn't an alcoholic or severely abusing, but I was using

[00:11:27] alcohol to cope with some of these feelings.

[00:11:30] And that's why we use alcohol or any substance or overeating or whatever it is.

[00:11:35] We're using those aids, if you will, even excessive shopping.

[00:11:39] We use them to escape from our reality.

[00:11:42] We use them to get away from our feelings and all actions come from how we feel.

[00:11:48] So if we're really honest with ourselves and we can check ourselves at the door, like, why

[00:11:52] is this really happening?

[00:11:53] It's because there's something going on with you internally that you either have not yet

[00:11:58] identified or you're choosing not to identify it because it's too dang painful to.

[00:12:02] And so a lot of times this is what happens.

[00:12:04] We turn to a substance or a thing and then we find ourselves in a spiral and then we normalize

[00:12:11] it because alcohol is relevant and prevalent in every industry and in our social circles.

[00:12:17] You can't go anywhere for a celebration and not have alcohol present.

[00:12:22] Right.

[00:12:22] I mean, happy hours, get togethers, going out for dinner, name it.

[00:12:27] There's always alcohol present and it's socially acceptable.

[00:12:29] So it makes it really difficult for someone who's in a gray area to say, gosh, I think I'm

[00:12:36] pretty normal compared to everybody else when internally they're asking themselves those questions.

[00:12:41] But going back to the two years, most people will contemplate for two years.

[00:12:46] That's a magical number.

[00:12:48] And where I started to go and I got off track was most of my clients will be following me

[00:12:53] and watching my content for two years and will tell me I've been contemplating this for

[00:12:59] two years.

[00:12:59] One of my current clients now said he sent me a message six times on LinkedIn over a two

[00:13:05] year period and never sent the messages.

[00:13:08] Wow.

[00:13:09] And I said to him, when we finally got on a discovery call, I said, so what happened last

[00:13:12] weekend that you're on the call today?

[00:13:15] He goes, how'd you know what happened last weekend?

[00:13:17] I said, because I've been doing this long enough to know that something happened that became

[00:13:21] your rock bottom, your own enough.

[00:13:23] Doesn't have to be detrimental.

[00:13:24] You landed in jail or got a DUI, although that could definitely happen.

[00:13:29] So what was it?

[00:13:30] And he told me what it was.

[00:13:32] It was a complete embarrassment for him.

[00:13:35] And that was his own enough.

[00:13:37] And we all have to reach that own enough to make change.

[00:13:41] And that's OK.

[00:13:42] And sometimes it's it's a two year period for a lot of people.

[00:13:46] That seems to be the average what I'm seeing.

[00:13:48] So is that own enough enough to propel you through the change?

[00:13:54] I mean, do you in other words, do you have to dig for the root cause of why you're using

[00:13:57] these coping mechanisms?

[00:13:59] Or can you just try to work on how you react to triggers, like whatever's triggering you

[00:14:05] to use that coping mechanism?

[00:14:07] Yes.

[00:14:08] All of the above and more.

[00:14:10] All the above and more.

[00:14:11] So I use a process called the decide model of change, which is my own methodology.

[00:14:16] And I'll go through it really quickly because it's pretty fast.

[00:14:19] But it's an acronym.

[00:14:21] So the D is having a desire to change.

[00:14:23] Having a desire is the catalyst of all change.

[00:14:26] We have to have that desire to want to do it.

[00:14:28] Right.

[00:14:29] But there's a difference.

[00:14:30] You know, I'll pause there for a moment because there's a difference between I will and I

[00:14:34] want like I want a lot of things in my life.

[00:14:37] But am I willing to actually do it?

[00:14:41] So the desire is a want, which is good.

[00:14:44] It's a good place to start.

[00:14:45] And it is a catalyst for change.

[00:14:47] It's a start.

[00:14:48] But we got to move further.

[00:14:49] And the E and the decide model is exploring your why.

[00:14:53] And this is so crucial.

[00:14:55] This is probably the biggest root core North Star anchor for everyone is that if you don't

[00:15:03] have a deep enough why, then you're not going to make it through the tough times.

[00:15:08] So your why can be it's different for a lot of people.

[00:15:12] But I hear the same things quite often.

[00:15:14] My health, my family, my legacy, my job, my kids, how I show up for myself and others.

[00:15:23] I hear a plethora of variations of that get very deep.

[00:15:27] I'm tired of living this way.

[00:15:28] I want to be the best that I can.

[00:15:30] You know, I only have like 30 years left to really make a mark on my life here on planet

[00:15:35] Earth.

[00:15:35] And I want to do it well.

[00:15:36] And I want to be a better father.

[00:15:37] And I want to be a better husband or wife to my spouse.

[00:15:40] I want to get in better shape.

[00:15:43] My health is declining, whatever it is.

[00:15:45] And usually it's one of those things.

[00:15:47] It's a relationship.

[00:15:48] It's their health.

[00:15:49] It's a career.

[00:15:50] It's something that is so deep of value.

[00:15:53] And we really covered this.

[00:15:55] I spent a lot of time on that.

[00:15:56] Why?

[00:15:56] Because the moment things start, things are going well.

[00:16:00] They're not drinking, cruising along.

[00:16:02] And all of a sudden, life happens again.

[00:16:06] And all of a sudden, you know, they get knocked off the rocker.

[00:16:08] And what do they do?

[00:16:09] They want to go back to drinking right away.

[00:16:11] And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:16:12] Let's remember what your why is.

[00:16:14] So the why, I have them, you know, look at that on their phone every day, like copy and

[00:16:18] paste it.

[00:16:19] Look at it.

[00:16:19] Read it.

[00:16:19] Every day that has got to be your North Star.

[00:16:22] So the E in desire, or I'm sorry, the E in the decide model of change, the exploring your

[00:16:29] why is the most crucial.

[00:16:31] And it's exploring because exploring is diving deep.

[00:16:35] It's not just looking for a why or coming up with something that sounds good.

[00:16:39] It's no, you're going deep, five layers deep to get that root reason.

[00:16:43] The C in decide is having a commitment to self.

[00:16:46] Commitment means being willing to invest in yourself.

[00:16:49] Showing up.

[00:16:50] There's no backdoor.

[00:16:51] It's 100% commitment.

[00:16:52] If you're 98% committed, it's not going to work.

[00:16:55] You got to be 100% committed.

[00:16:57] The I is having an identity shift.

[00:17:02] This is where I believe a lot of programs get it wrong because we got to move into that person

[00:17:08] that we want to become.

[00:17:10] And so if somebody's struggling with how they're showing up at work and their health and everything

[00:17:16] else and you're using alcohol's way to cope, well, what do they want to be?

[00:17:20] Who's that person that they want to be?

[00:17:22] And what does that person need to do that they're not currently doing?

[00:17:26] They have to be willing to move into that new identity right up front.

[00:17:29] So we spend, you know, I introduce them to the concept and that's what we're working towards.

[00:17:33] But implementing good daily habits, which is the second D, is part of that process.

[00:17:39] What daily habits are they implementing on a daily basis that's going to strengthen them,

[00:17:43] that's going to help them get there?

[00:17:45] And so I focus a lot on specific daily habits for each of them.

[00:17:50] Each person's an individual and it's not a one size fits all.

[00:17:55] It's how does it work for their schedule?

[00:17:57] What are they currently doing that they're not doing now?

[00:17:59] So it's whether it's helping them find a trainer, a personal trainer, working with a nutritionist.

[00:18:06] I have people that work with me.

[00:18:07] I have a sleep coach and I have some other people that work alongside of me that I bring

[00:18:11] along that if my client needs something specific, we got them covered.

[00:18:16] And then the last E is everyday effort equals expansion.

[00:18:21] You have to be able to execute on the effort every single day.

[00:18:25] And when you do, you start to expand into the person you really were desired to be and want to be.

[00:18:31] But all this is work.

[00:18:32] You know, it's not just a wish.

[00:18:34] There's a woman I follow, Joyce Meyer.

[00:18:36] She says, you can have a wishbone all day long, but it's not a wishbone you need.

[00:18:39] It's a backbone.

[00:18:41] And I love that because that's exactly kicking the pants.

[00:18:45] But yeah, that's what we need to make a change.

[00:18:47] So what's going on with the person that definitely say they know their why, say they maybe it's just

[00:18:55] the commitment aspect, but they just keep reverting back to their old ways.

[00:19:00] What's what's going on?

[00:19:01] I mean, it's like self-sabotage, I guess.

[00:19:03] Yeah.

[00:19:03] I just had a client, two clients last week that ended up having a fall off point and it happens.

[00:19:09] And for everyone, it's different.

[00:19:11] The situation's different, but it's all the same.

[00:19:13] And the sameness is that how you came to drinking to help cope, you've created neural

[00:19:20] pathways in your brain.

[00:19:22] It became a habit.

[00:19:23] It's a habitual thing that you've created for yourself.

[00:19:26] You know, Y equals Z kind of a thing, right?

[00:19:30] So it's an association pathway.

[00:19:33] So when I'm not feeling good or I have a feeling that I don't feel good, I know the way that fixes

[00:19:38] that is by having a drink.

[00:19:39] It's like, here's the cause, here's the solution at worst.

[00:19:43] Because guess what?

[00:19:43] Alcohol absolutely works.

[00:19:45] Oh, dang straight it works until it doesn't work.

[00:19:49] And that's when we get to the point where they're working with me.

[00:19:52] So even though they're strengthened, they're learning new tools, they're learning self-regulation

[00:19:58] tools, which is the biggest piece of this puzzle.

[00:20:01] If they get in a deep enough place with their emotions, they will revert back if they're not

[00:20:08] using those self-regulation tools effectively because it's just easier.

[00:20:12] It's what they know.

[00:20:12] They get into that deep part of their brain of, well, this is the pattern that I'm used

[00:20:17] to.

[00:20:18] And it's really easy.

[00:20:19] I mean, we've all been on a diet, right?

[00:20:21] Right.

[00:20:22] And we know, like we put ourselves on a specific time limit.

[00:20:25] Like I'm going to go on a diet for 30 days or I'm going to try my best.

[00:20:29] But we all know that a strict diet is really hard to follow for a long time unless you're

[00:20:37] doing all the things with it that support this new way of living.

[00:20:42] And eventually you're going to want to have a dessert and everything.

[00:20:44] But the danger thing is when someone is drinking or not drinking and they go back to drinking

[00:20:51] is they think, well, I might be able to moderate or just have one or two.

[00:20:55] But if they're a true gray area drinker and not even like a heavier social drinker, but

[00:21:00] they're a true gray area drinker, very few gray area drinkers can go back to moderate their

[00:21:05] drinking and be successful.

[00:21:07] They're going to fall back into that pattern of, well, this has worked for me before.

[00:21:12] This is what I know.

[00:21:13] It's a familiar pattern and therefore I'm going to just have a drink because that's the

[00:21:17] way I know how to solve the problem.

[00:21:19] And then of course they're far enough along and because they are in a gray area and it's

[00:21:23] a choice to drink, they're not forced to drink, they're not needing a drink to survive

[00:21:27] day to day.

[00:21:28] Then they come to their senses and they're like, oh my gosh, what have I done?

[00:21:33] And like I said, this happened twice this week.

[00:21:35] And both of these situations that happened for both of my clients, these two clients specifically,

[00:21:40] they were big emotional relationship problems.

[00:21:47] One in the middle of a very, very stressful, not healthy relationship.

[00:21:54] And the other one had a significant stress issue with their particular job.

[00:21:59] And it was massive.

[00:22:01] I mean, we're not talking like little, we're talking massive.

[00:22:03] And if the self-regulation tools are not being used and utilized, which we spent a lot of time

[00:22:09] working on, they're going to easily fall back into that pattern.

[00:22:13] And so it takes time.

[00:22:14] It's time.

[00:22:15] It's practice.

[00:22:16] It's working on it every single day.

[00:22:18] That's why everyday effort has got to be there.

[00:22:21] It's making daily intentions every single day.

[00:22:24] That's my motto.

[00:22:25] What is your intention for today?

[00:22:27] It's how you show up.

[00:22:28] It's how you're being, not what you're doing.

[00:22:31] Intention, being intentional with your actions every day is how you are being as a human being.

[00:22:40] And it's not about doing and checking off a list.

[00:22:44] It's like truly, how do I want to show up and serve today for myself and others?

[00:22:50] And remaining alcohol-free for a lot of people is a superpower.

[00:22:55] And once they start to see the benefits of how good they feel, they continue.

[00:23:01] And not everybody falls off for a day or two.

[00:23:05] I mean, it happens, but not everybody does.

[00:23:08] It's really a choice.

[00:23:10] It's okay to test the waters.

[00:23:11] I never look at someone having an off day or falling off as a failure.

[00:23:17] If anything, it's a blessing.

[00:23:19] It's a gift for them to see exactly why they did and how it actually did not help them.

[00:23:25] If anything, it probably made the situation worse, which in both cases, that's what happened.

[00:23:30] Because it just aspirated the situation.

[00:23:35] It doesn't solve a problem at all.

[00:23:38] And we think it does.

[00:23:40] Right.

[00:23:40] So what I'm hearing is we're using these coping mechanisms, whether it's alcohol or food or whatever, shopping, to regulate our emotions.

[00:23:48] And that's why you give people other tools to help regulate their emotions.

[00:23:53] Am I understanding that correctly?

[00:23:56] Yeah.

[00:23:57] Yeah.

[00:23:57] We work a lot on some methods that I'll teach them.

[00:24:01] One of them is breathing.

[00:24:02] So I have another tool called the Saber Method.

[00:24:04] And it's really just saying when you're tempted or you're thinking about drinking or you're upset with somebody just cut you off in traffic or you're ruminating and catastrophizing inside your head over two different situations on what to do.

[00:24:18] So that is cognitive dissonance.

[00:24:20] When we have two or more incongruent thoughts that are battling with each other inside of our head.

[00:24:25] And when we get to that point, like I know I shouldn't do it, but I want to do it.

[00:24:28] Or I don't know what to do.

[00:24:30] And all these thoughts are just making you crazy.

[00:24:32] And all you want to do is scream.

[00:24:34] The best way to combat that is to say the word stop out loud because it literally cuts off your thinking to the prefrontal cortex.

[00:24:41] It gives you a moment to pause and acknowledge what it is that you're actually thinking about.

[00:24:47] And 99.9% of the time what you're thinking about is untrue.

[00:24:51] There's always a different version of the story that you're creating inside of your mind.

[00:24:56] We hate open loops as human beings.

[00:24:58] We like to close the loop.

[00:25:01] So if you ever think about the last time you were upset, well, this just happened to me.

[00:25:05] Actually, yesterday I was thinking about a certain situation and having difficulty with a particular family member.

[00:25:14] And because I didn't hear anything for a couple days, I then started formulating a story inside my head, which completely was not true.

[00:25:23] So we do this all the time.

[00:25:24] Our thoughts are our worst enemy.

[00:25:26] Right.

[00:25:26] And our thoughts create our feelings.

[00:25:28] And guess what?

[00:25:29] The feelings create the action.

[00:25:30] So we got to be careful in what we're thinking.

[00:25:31] So if we just say stop and look at and acknowledge what we're thinking and ask ourselves, run it through a filter.

[00:25:37] Is what I'm thinking really true?

[00:25:39] I mean, factual?

[00:25:40] Like facts over feelings here?

[00:25:43] Or is there something else that could be true?

[00:25:45] And there's always something else that could be true.

[00:25:47] And then the B in Saber, this is called the Saber method.

[00:25:50] The B is breathe.

[00:25:51] The fastest way to control our nervous system, our autonomic nervous system, is through breath.

[00:25:56] And there's tons of breath, types of breath work out there.

[00:26:00] But when I say breath breathing, I'm saying just deep controlled breathing.

[00:26:04] In through the nose, out through the mouth.

[00:26:07] Slow controlled breaths will help really calm the nervous system down.

[00:26:11] And then the E in Saber is to embrace that you're human.

[00:26:16] And that these thoughts are a normal pattern that have been programmed inside your head for so long.

[00:26:22] And we will continue to do this.

[00:26:24] So having grace for yourself.

[00:26:26] Giving yourself a hug.

[00:26:27] Embracing yourself with a hug.

[00:26:28] And then the R in Saber is redirect.

[00:26:31] The best way to redirect our thoughts and snap us out of this.

[00:26:34] Change your state.

[00:26:35] Get up and move.

[00:26:36] You can redirect to making a new decision on the situation that's at hand.

[00:26:41] Having gratitude is another great way to redirect.

[00:26:45] Move into gratitude.

[00:26:46] Put your hand over your heart.

[00:26:48] Be grateful that you're breathing.

[00:26:49] Look at the beautiful outside nature or pet a dog or whatever.

[00:26:55] It's find the gratitude.

[00:26:56] So those are just one quick simple one.

[00:26:59] But, you know, really just stopping to pause and reflect before you act is the biggest thing that they can do.

[00:27:05] And the other thing is be okay with not being okay.

[00:27:09] It's okay that we have emotions.

[00:27:12] Right.

[00:27:12] Right.

[00:27:12] It's okay.

[00:27:14] But we want to act on them.

[00:27:16] And that's not always beneficial for us.

[00:27:19] We have to be willing to sit with our feelings and be okay with not being okay.

[00:27:24] When I heard you talking about one client, you talked about he had a really bad weekend.

[00:27:28] And something catastrophic in his life happened.

[00:27:32] That was kind of the tipping point.

[00:27:34] Right.

[00:27:35] So I guess my question to you is, instead of waiting the two years or going through that two-year cycle of trying to convince ourselves that it's time to change, can we help ourselves kind of speed that process up?

[00:27:49] Does that make sense?

[00:27:50] Yeah.

[00:27:51] Yeah.

[00:27:51] It's radical honesty.

[00:27:53] The thing of it is, your inner guidance system is so smart.

[00:27:57] And we tend to push our inner knowing away, whatever the belief system is.

[00:28:02] For me, I'm a Christian, so it's the Holy Spirit for me.

[00:28:04] And I'm convicted quite a bit.

[00:28:06] I get convicted left and right.

[00:28:08] I'm slapped around by the Holy Spirit.

[00:28:10] Tell me.

[00:28:10] I mean, trust me.

[00:28:11] It's pretty bad at times.

[00:28:12] It's like, really, Carrie?

[00:28:13] Like, I'll say something.

[00:28:14] I'm like, oh, man, I shouldn't have said that or I shouldn't have thought that.

[00:28:17] So we have this inner guiding system.

[00:28:19] Whether it's your gut, it's spirit, it's source, whatever it is for you, you already know right from wrong.

[00:28:24] So it's already nudging you.

[00:28:26] And what I'm asking people to do is I'm not on a crusade against alcohol.

[00:28:31] What I'm on a crusade for, Michelle, is to help people question what they're doing, question what they're drinking, question why they're staying in a marriage, question why they're not working on their health, question why they're staying in this gray area in the first place.

[00:28:44] And be honest.

[00:28:46] Be radically honest.

[00:28:48] No one is coming to save you.

[00:28:51] No one.

[00:28:52] And when you're in a gray area, it is a choice.

[00:28:55] Thank God it's a choice.

[00:28:57] Right.

[00:28:58] You get to decide.

[00:29:00] So if it's not working for you at that point, that's when you have to start looking within and saying, is this really what I want my life to be?

[00:29:10] Or do I want to do something radically different and get better at this?

[00:29:16] And if it's the latter, great.

[00:29:20] So if my message today, if all I'm doing is planting a seed for someone, then I pray that water will cultivate that seed into action for someone.

[00:29:32] Because that is my hope and my goal.

[00:29:34] And you know what?

[00:29:35] Somebody planted a seed for me in 2014, and I did not quit drinking until 2016.

[00:29:41] It took me also two years.

[00:29:43] Right.

[00:29:44] So it is pretty good average for most people.

[00:29:47] They know they got the problem.

[00:29:49] They're just waiting.

[00:29:49] I mean, I was actually, I remember driving home from going out for dinner and having a couple glasses of wine.

[00:29:57] Technically, I probably was drunk driving with just a couple glasses of wine for 125 pound female, right?

[00:30:05] In a couple hour period.

[00:30:07] And I think to myself, well, I haven't gotten a DUI yet.

[00:30:12] Like I always threw yet in there.

[00:30:15] Right.

[00:30:15] We testify what we do.

[00:30:17] Yeah.

[00:30:18] Nothing's wrong.

[00:30:19] Like nothing bad's happened yet.

[00:30:22] And it was almost like I was waiting in some sick way for something to force me into it.

[00:30:30] And thank you, Jesus, that did not happen and that I was able to make that choice on my own.

[00:30:35] And that is exactly what my message is for people to pay attention, wake up, don't shove it under the rug.

[00:30:43] It's not going to get better on its own.

[00:30:45] You're a grown adult.

[00:30:46] You are responsible for your own life.

[00:30:48] And it's time for you to make some tough choices.

[00:30:50] Yeah.

[00:30:51] Yeah.

[00:30:51] I was just trying to see, like, I feel exactly the way with what you're saying that people tend to wait until that catastrophic event happens.

[00:31:02] And I was just trying to see if there's a way that we can get ourselves to that point before that catastrophic event.

[00:31:09] And maybe you mentioned I'm a Christian, too.

[00:31:11] So I'm wondering if you are a person of faith, whatever that faith is, maybe faith is part of it as well, that you dig into your faith a little bit.

[00:31:20] I don't know.

[00:31:21] I don't know what your journey was.

[00:31:22] Oh, yeah.

[00:31:24] Oh, yeah.

[00:31:24] Oh, yeah.

[00:32:01] So I read the big book.

[00:32:22] He was a coach.

[00:32:22] He was more like an executive coach, kind of like what I do.

[00:32:26] And I was like so amazed by the entire process of working with him that he was showing me.

[00:32:35] And I was alcohol free.

[00:32:36] I mean, I was already sober when I was working with him.

[00:32:38] He showed me the process of how I even got there, which was this deep gnawing at my soul.

[00:32:45] And my husband's too close to me.

[00:32:47] My friends were too close to me.

[00:32:49] My family doesn't know how to do anything with coaching or therapy or counseling or knowing trauma and understanding how the brain works.

[00:32:56] But this guy did.

[00:32:58] And he really helped me.

[00:32:59] And matter of fact, it was his words.

[00:33:02] When I was coaching with him, he said, Carrie, I think you are going to be a coach yourself someday.

[00:33:08] I see it in you.

[00:33:09] And he goes, and I think you're going to start your own business.

[00:33:12] And I think you're going to start sharing your story with the world.

[00:33:15] And I was like, no, no, and a hell no.

[00:33:19] But here we are.

[00:33:20] So he knew something back then.

[00:33:23] And this was in 2017.

[00:33:25] He knew something that I didn't know.

[00:33:28] And in 2018, when I was two years sober at that point, I was going to start a small group at my church.

[00:33:34] The church already had a recovery group.

[00:33:36] So they didn't want anything with gray area drinking because it was too close to the recovery group.

[00:33:41] And I'm like, well, wow, aren't we here to spread the love of Jesus and we're going to worry about competing with a small group?

[00:33:47] What?

[00:33:49] And she said to me at that time, well, what qualifications do you have?

[00:33:52] I said, I'm sorry, what?

[00:33:54] Qualifications to run a small group?

[00:33:56] I don't know.

[00:33:57] I've lived it.

[00:33:58] She goes, oh, well, you should be licensed or certified or something.

[00:34:02] And I'm like, what?

[00:34:04] I was so angry over it.

[00:34:06] I literally left the church.

[00:34:08] And my girlfriend called me that same day.

[00:34:10] This whole conversation went down and said, what's wrong?

[00:34:12] And I told her.

[00:34:13] And she said, why are you allowing the church to dictate what you want to do?

[00:34:17] Just do it on your own.

[00:34:19] And I was like, yeah, I'll show that church.

[00:34:21] I don't need them.

[00:34:22] And that was in 2018.

[00:34:24] It's coming up on six years now when that conversation happened.

[00:34:28] And immediately I started research and domain names.

[00:34:33] And literally I started taking courses, trauma-based courses, life coaching, executive coaching, leadership

[00:34:40] coaching, like all the things I did over the past five, six years.

[00:34:43] And I just jumped right in.

[00:34:45] That's what I do.

[00:34:46] And now I'm very close by the time this airs to being certified in breath work, which is

[00:34:54] really therapeutic.

[00:34:55] It's trauma-based breath work.

[00:34:57] And to really help people heal their trauma and help them move through some really tough

[00:35:01] times that they've had in their life.

[00:35:03] And so this is the kind of modalities that I'm excited about, that I believe in very strongly.

[00:35:10] And I am just excited about really helping as many people as I can, no matter what gray

[00:35:16] area they have in their life.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] It's kind of interesting.

[00:35:19] I was chatting with one lady on the podcast that she's mastered 20 different modalities.

[00:35:25] And I asked her out of all of those, which one did she think benefited people the most?

[00:35:30] And she said it was breath work.

[00:35:32] Yeah.

[00:35:32] She really thought that that was the number one.

[00:35:35] And I thought, wow, that's pretty impressive.

[00:35:37] Really?

[00:35:37] You can have a significant improvement and a massive transformation with just one session.

[00:35:45] I have experienced it countless times, countless, countless, countless times over the past five

[00:35:50] years.

[00:35:51] And there's always something there for me.

[00:35:55] Wow.

[00:35:56] No matter what the session is, there's always something that I walk away from, whether it's

[00:36:00] a validation, whether it's a knowing, whether it's a release of something, whether it's a

[00:36:07] putting a understanding or meaning around something.

[00:36:11] One of the greatest episodes I had was a year ago where I really felt like I had a rebirth

[00:36:18] during my breath work of this new version of myself.

[00:36:22] Because I had been still really battling over my self-confidence regarding my skin.

[00:36:30] And which is a long story in itself I won't go into.

[00:36:33] But ever since I was five, I was teased relentless as a child.

[00:36:37] And I just always hated my skin.

[00:36:40] And so I'd been carrying this thought I got over.

[00:36:43] I thought I had healed that part of me.

[00:36:45] And apparently I had not because this is what came up in this session for me.

[00:36:49] And I was able to really release all that by almost expelling this ugliness that I've been

[00:36:57] holding onto for so long.

[00:36:59] And I felt like I was reborn into this new version of myself.

[00:37:04] And I know that sounds, that might seem super out there and woo for a lot of people, but this

[00:37:09] is the transformational work that I'm doing now with breath work and really helping others

[00:37:14] with their own journey.

[00:37:15] And it's so transformational that why would I not want to be sharing it and doing more

[00:37:22] of it with others?

[00:37:23] Because it is massive what it could do for someone.

[00:37:26] That's amazing.

[00:37:28] Yeah.

[00:37:29] So I was wondering in all of this, how important do you think like having a good relationship

[00:37:35] with yourself is?

[00:37:37] And I know it's important.

[00:37:38] I mean, I don't mean to be a silly question, but I feel like a lot of us

[00:37:43] grow up never having a good relationship with ourself.

[00:37:48] And I think that's kind of the root of a lot of these problems.

[00:37:51] Oh, yeah.

[00:37:52] I don't think there's a human being alive that, well, that's not true.

[00:37:57] Maybe my husband.

[00:37:59] He's the most confident person I know and had such a lovely childhood.

[00:38:04] I mean, there are people out there that were very fortunate to have a very well-rounded,

[00:38:09] healthy, safe, and secure upbringing with their parents.

[00:38:14] And I was not one of those people.

[00:38:16] And I'm more of the norm, unfortunately.

[00:38:19] There's a lot of trauma, whether it's generational trauma that's been passed down, which has been

[00:38:24] part of my story, let alone my own trauma as a child in my teenage years.

[00:38:30] But we all have something.

[00:38:31] And I believe that whether it's little T trauma or big T trauma, all of us humans have experienced

[00:38:39] something in our life, even it could be the smallest thing that has indicated for us to have

[00:38:45] a belief around a situation or a circumstance that happened.

[00:38:49] And we put a meaning on that.

[00:38:51] And that meaning then turns into a core conflict inside of our head that we've been carrying

[00:39:01] around for a very long time.

[00:39:02] And that becomes part of our identity.

[00:39:05] And so my story, and I'll just give you this really quick example, I alluded to being teased

[00:39:11] so relentlessly as a child.

[00:39:12] And then my teenage years were just unbelievable, very painful.

[00:39:17] I went to 12 different schools in nine years.

[00:39:19] And so with all the things that happened in between five to when I was in ninth grade, my

[00:39:26] second ninth grade, that was my 12th school.

[00:39:29] But all those years between that, I had added up everything in my head.

[00:39:34] And therefore that became who I really was, who I thought I was.

[00:39:37] And so I had the victim badge splattered across my forehead.

[00:39:43] So that became my excuse for all of my bad behavior and my escapisms that I was doing.

[00:39:50] And so that led into my adulthood.

[00:39:53] And when I met my husband, this is just such a great example.

[00:39:57] I was so desperate to be loved and accepted by someone, especially a male, because at the

[00:40:04] time my dad was not that person or ever was.

[00:40:07] Now he is.

[00:40:08] You know, here we are, he's 80 something and we're there now, but it took a long time.

[00:40:13] But my husband, when I first met him, he was the nicest, most, what's the word I'm looking

[00:40:20] for?

[00:40:20] Caring and sweet and generous.

[00:40:24] And I just, I'd never met anybody like him in my life.

[00:40:27] And we were dating for like six weeks, two months, something around there.

[00:40:32] And this is before cell phones, you know, in this eighties.

[00:40:35] And I called his house and his mom answered.

[00:40:38] And I said, is Rob home?

[00:40:40] And she says, no.

[00:40:42] And you know why I was calling Michelle?

[00:40:44] I was calling to break up with him.

[00:40:45] Oh, wow.

[00:40:47] Because he was too nice.

[00:40:48] I was like, what is wrong with this guy?

[00:40:50] Like, he's just too nice.

[00:40:51] Like, there's gotta be something wrong with him.

[00:40:53] Like, I was used to being tossed around and beaten on and spit on and just like treated

[00:41:00] like garbage.

[00:41:00] I was like, what's wrong with this guy?

[00:41:02] And I really thought something was wrong with him.

[00:41:04] Wow.

[00:41:05] And when I called, my mother-in-law said, she said, oh, Carrie, he loves you.

[00:41:10] He's not home.

[00:41:11] She said, but I just want, you know, he loves you and we love you.

[00:41:16] And I hope you never break his heart.

[00:41:18] Oh, wow.

[00:41:19] And I was like, oh, well, snap.

[00:41:21] I guess I'm not breaking up with him then.

[00:41:22] And I think my mother-in-law has passed now, but I just am so glad that she said that to

[00:41:30] me that day, or I don't know where I'd be today.

[00:41:31] I don't think I'd be alive.

[00:41:33] I really don't.

[00:41:34] Oh, wow.

[00:41:35] Yeah.

[00:41:36] So, yeah.

[00:41:37] I mean, it's amazing how one person can change the trajectory of your life, right?

[00:41:41] But it can.

[00:41:42] Amazing.

[00:41:43] It just goes to show, like they always say, you don't know how you're touching other

[00:41:47] people in everyday life.

[00:41:49] To her, it was probably just a nice conversation.

[00:41:53] And she was just telling you something nice.

[00:41:56] She had no idea that it would change her life.

[00:41:58] Oh, no.

[00:41:59] I don't.

[00:41:59] And I honestly didn't know it at the time either.

[00:42:02] It wasn't until later.

[00:42:03] And I'm like, oh, man, Rob, I almost broke up with you.

[00:42:05] And he heard the story.

[00:42:06] He's heard it so many times now.

[00:42:07] He's like, yeah, I know.

[00:42:09] I've heard it.

[00:42:10] And he's like, you know how lucky you are.

[00:42:11] You have me.

[00:42:12] I'm like, yes, I know how lucky I am.

[00:42:14] I have you.

[00:42:14] And he's still a great husband.

[00:42:15] But we've had our ups and downs.

[00:42:17] I mean, it's not been a bed of roses either.

[00:42:19] So but we've worked through it.

[00:42:21] And he's very supportive of me and my business.

[00:42:23] And he plays a huge role in supporting me because what I do today is a lot.

[00:42:31] It's a lot of energy to hold for other people.

[00:42:33] But I would not be able to do this work if I did not experience everything that I had experienced

[00:42:40] as a child and growing up and so forth.

[00:42:43] I believe that God really allowed me to experience all of that as painful and horrible as it was,

[00:42:50] allowed me to do that so I could really understand people's trauma and understand their mindset

[00:42:57] and understand what ticks people and what really challenges them and triggers them and all the

[00:43:03] things that go with that because I've been through a lot of it myself.

[00:43:06] And so every time I'm in the middle of a challenge and life is not going my way, I'm like, God,

[00:43:12] I don't prefer this.

[00:43:14] I don't like it.

[00:43:15] It's tough.

[00:43:15] But I know you got a gift here for me.

[00:43:17] And I'm just buckling in and just show me what it is.

[00:43:20] Show me where that gift is.

[00:43:21] Show me what it is that you're trying to teach me because I know this is not for nothing.

[00:43:26] Everything you do has a purpose.

[00:43:28] And here I am.

[00:43:30] I'm ready to receive.

[00:43:32] And hurry it up, please, because I don't like it.

[00:43:34] That's awesome.

[00:43:36] And usually it takes a lot longer if I say that.

[00:43:38] So that's awesome that you can look at it that way, though, because I think a lot of times

[00:43:44] we get caught in what's happening and we don't look at the bigger picture.

[00:43:48] So that's awesome.

[00:43:50] Yeah, that took a lot of work to get there.

[00:43:52] And that's one of the things that I like to really encourage my clients to lean in on

[00:43:58] when we're in session of sometimes it's too painful.

[00:44:01] And if we're too soon working on something that is too touchy, then we'll back off because,

[00:44:07] you know, it can be really hard for someone to come to grips of like,

[00:44:11] that didn't happen to me.

[00:44:13] It happened for me.

[00:44:14] And that's a big hurdle to cross.

[00:44:18] It is.

[00:44:19] But when it does cross, when they are ready to accept that and really appreciate it and

[00:44:26] then honor it and give gratitude for it is when everything shifts.

[00:44:32] Because gratitude is literally one of the biggest gifts that we have on our day-to-day life.

[00:44:38] And very few of us are tapping into that.

[00:44:41] And that's kind of the golden key, having intention every day and being grateful.

[00:44:46] And that's really hard.

[00:44:47] It's easier just to go through life willy-nilly in it, not giving a rip and complaining.

[00:44:53] Right.

[00:44:53] That's way easier.

[00:44:54] It is.

[00:44:55] Because we're all human.

[00:44:57] And that's the human condition is to just, you know, none of our thoughts are all that great.

[00:45:03] I mean, most of us humans have thoughts that if somebody was listening, you'd be quite embarrassed

[00:45:09] that they heard you, what you're thinking about.

[00:45:11] You know, I mean, think about going to the grocery store for crying out loud.

[00:45:14] You see someone and you're making judgment and you know it's not the right thing to do,

[00:45:18] but you're like, you might look at what's in their basket and go, well, that's why you're

[00:45:22] 300 pounds because you're, you know, you got all this stuff in your basket.

[00:45:25] You know, like it's easy for us to go down that rabbit hole and then we got to slap ourself

[00:45:29] across the head and go, what the heck are you doing?

[00:45:31] So we have this internal, and everyone does it.

[00:45:34] We all have judgments.

[00:45:35] We all have these thoughts run through our head.

[00:45:37] And those are terrible.

[00:45:40] You know, they're addictive thoughts.

[00:45:41] But the moment you start catching yourself on those thoughts, the more you do it, the better

[00:45:46] you become at it and the less those negative thoughts come.

[00:45:49] And that's part of a longer process.

[00:45:51] And it takes time for that to happen.

[00:45:52] I'm still a work in progress on that.

[00:45:55] There's no doubt.

[00:45:56] I mean, I'm 57 years old.

[00:45:57] I've had 50 years of programming that wasn't exactly very good.

[00:46:02] So it's taken a hot minute to turn that around.

[00:46:06] We're getting there, though.

[00:46:07] We're getting there.

[00:46:09] We're all a work in progress.

[00:46:10] Yeah.

[00:46:11] That's awesome.

[00:46:13] Now, I know we're kind of wrapping up here, but I want to be respectful of your time.

[00:46:17] But I was wondering if you want to tell us a little bit more about your coaching business.

[00:46:20] Yeah.

[00:46:21] Yeah.

[00:46:21] So great, Tonic.

[00:46:22] I alluded to it already that most of my clients are one-on-one clients and they are in a leadership

[00:46:26] role or they own their own business.

[00:46:28] And they're mostly in their 50s because I'm in my 50s.

[00:46:31] And I don't know.

[00:46:32] I attract people that are similar to me, I suppose.

[00:46:34] But, you know, we start off really diving deep and we start with the decide model that I mentioned

[00:46:40] is really the foundational piece that I walk everybody through.

[00:46:45] And we meet every week and then we'll go to every other week after a period of time.

[00:46:50] I do client retreats.

[00:46:51] I have client VIP days.

[00:46:53] The breath work is certainly a huge piece of what I do and will be continuing to do.

[00:46:59] And that will certainly grow as we continue forward.

[00:47:03] And so, yeah, I love what I do.

[00:47:06] It's very specialized and with gray area drinkers.

[00:47:10] And I just thank God that I have the ability and he's gifted me with this, I don't want to

[00:47:17] call it talent, but maybe it is.

[00:47:19] I don't know.

[00:47:20] I'm pretty good at what I do, I think.

[00:47:21] So I think I'm just blessed to do what I do.

[00:47:25] And I couldn't be happier.

[00:47:26] I just wake up every day knowing this is why I'm here.

[00:47:31] Wonderful.

[00:47:32] Do you feel like with every person that you help that it kind of heals you even more,

[00:47:36] if that makes sense?

[00:47:38] When I get a message every day, I hear from my clients every day, most of them every day.

[00:47:44] And this morning I heard yet another, I mean, it's frequent, it's several times a week that

[00:47:49] somebody will leave me something along the lines of, thank you.

[00:47:54] Thank you for yesterday.

[00:47:56] Thank you for getting me through that.

[00:47:57] I don't know where I would be if I didn't have you to hold me accountable for you to

[00:48:02] be there.

[00:48:03] I don't know what my life would look like, whatever the message is.

[00:48:07] But that's fuel.

[00:48:09] That's sticking high octane fuel into my body to keep me going to do this work every day.

[00:48:16] And I cannot begin to tell you how that absolutely not only validates my work, validates the reason

[00:48:27] why I do what I do, but it just brings me to my knees.

[00:48:31] And I have so much gratitude that I've been put in this position.

[00:48:35] I didn't seek it.

[00:48:37] It came to me, as I told you.

[00:48:39] And I was, by the time this all happened, I was working at a job I actually liked and

[00:48:44] made good money.

[00:48:45] And I left that six figure job to do this and I would never trade it.

[00:48:50] I would never trade it ever again.

[00:48:52] That's wonderful.

[00:48:54] Yeah.

[00:48:55] It has to be a great feeling.

[00:48:56] It is.

[00:48:57] It is.

[00:48:58] But I took a chance and I didn't settle and it was a choice.

[00:49:01] And I think when we get a calling or we get a nudge, and this is what I'm saying about

[00:49:06] the inner voice, I didn't know this was going to happen.

[00:49:08] I just leaned in.

[00:49:10] God told me when I heard the term gray area drinking on a podcast, he said, you need to

[00:49:15] tell more people about it.

[00:49:16] I was called at that moment and I answered that call and I haven't looked back.

[00:49:20] I love that.

[00:49:21] Thank you.

[00:49:22] Very wonderful.

[00:49:23] So do you want to tell us about your books?

[00:49:24] You've written a couple of books at least, right?

[00:49:27] Yeah.

[00:49:27] Both of them were anthologies, which means there was other authors.

[00:49:32] Okay.

[00:49:32] So it's a collaboration book.

[00:49:34] And one of them, one of my favorite, well, they're both great, but the successful mind

[00:49:39] is probably one of my fave out of the two, if I'm being honest.

[00:49:42] I want to say that because you're not supposed to have a favorite kid, right?

[00:49:45] But, and that was from 2020 when that was written.

[00:49:50] And it's the Saber method that I told you about, but it's not called the Saber.

[00:49:54] It's really, it's a great understanding of how to walk through that method without even

[00:49:59] saying it's a method.

[00:50:00] So the way that it was written is to have the reader come up with their own situation

[00:50:05] and walk it through with me.

[00:50:06] And I don't even call it the Saber.

[00:50:09] As a matter of fact, that's called Living in the Gray, A Struggle Within, because we all

[00:50:13] have struggles within.

[00:50:14] And then the other book, Limitless, actually hit the Wall Street Journal bestseller.

[00:50:19] So we, I technically, I am a Wall Street Journal bestselling author.

[00:50:23] Congratulations.

[00:50:24] Thank you.

[00:50:25] Thank you.

[00:50:26] That is a very difficult chapter that I wrote because it is my personal story that led up

[00:50:34] to the last night that I drank, which ironically was July 4th, 2016.

[00:50:39] And I share that story very openly.

[00:50:42] So it was hard to write it because it's hard putting all your stuff out there.

[00:50:46] It's like getting naked in front of a bunch of people, but I did it.

[00:50:50] And there's actually two versions out there.

[00:50:52] There's the oops, the editor didn't catch something version.

[00:50:57] And then there's the good version that I prefer that is now available everywhere that you can

[00:51:03] find the book.

[00:51:04] But the oops version, I'm hoping that, you know, maybe someday I'll be worth money.

[00:51:09] No, I'm just kidding.

[00:51:10] But yeah, I have some author copies.

[00:51:12] So the pre-orders and the author's copies all have the oops version.

[00:51:16] And they didn't take out some languaging that I wanted them to.

[00:51:19] And yeah, but you know, hey, it's raw.

[00:51:22] It's real.

[00:51:22] It's the story.

[00:51:23] It's how it happened.

[00:51:24] And, you know, here we are.

[00:51:26] So, yeah.

[00:51:28] Yeah.

[00:51:28] If people are listening and they think, I love Carrie, how do I get more of her?

[00:51:33] Where can they find you?

[00:51:34] Well, first of all, I love you too.

[00:51:36] So if you're assuming that you love me, I already love you back.

[00:51:40] My website is probably the easiest, Gray Tonic, G-R-A-Y-T-O-N-I-C.

[00:51:45] Gray Tonic is one word.

[00:51:46] But listen, I am so on, I love LinkedIn.

[00:51:50] I am the LinkedIn girl.

[00:51:51] So that's where most people find me.

[00:51:54] I am on Instagram and Facebook, but I don't do much with it.

[00:51:57] I mean, I have a presence on there and so forth and I do post and whatnot, but it's not my thing.

[00:52:02] LinkedIn's my thing.

[00:52:03] And I have a lot of people that will say, oh yeah, but I'll be in the grocery store.

[00:52:08] And they're like, oh my God, I saw you on LinkedIn.

[00:52:10] I see you all the time.

[00:52:11] And I'm like, that's the best compliment I could get.

[00:52:13] So it's kind of fun.

[00:52:15] That is.

[00:52:16] Yeah.

[00:52:16] I love LinkedIn.

[00:52:17] So find me on LinkedIn.

[00:52:17] I'm the only Carrie Shweer.

[00:52:19] I'm so easy to find, which is great.

[00:52:21] I'm the only one with that name.

[00:52:23] And so, yeah, it's easy to find me.

[00:52:28] That's great.

[00:52:29] Okay.

[00:52:30] Is there the last question?

[00:52:31] Is there anything we haven't talked about today?

[00:52:33] And I know we've covered a huge scope, but is there anything we haven't talked about that

[00:52:37] you want to make sure the listeners hear?

[00:52:39] When I get asked this question, I will say about listening to your gut.

[00:52:43] And we talked about that so much.

[00:52:44] And I would just say not to run away from this inner dialogue that you're having and nothing

[00:52:51] that you've gone through is bad enough for you to feel that you can't move past it because

[00:52:56] you absolutely can, no matter what it is.

[00:52:59] I have seen and heard it all.

[00:53:02] And there is hope and there's a future and you don't have to settle.

[00:53:06] You just don't have to settle.

[00:53:08] There's a better way.

[00:53:09] That's wonderful.

[00:53:10] Thank you.

[00:53:11] And I thank you for sharing your experience and your wisdom with us today.

[00:53:14] It's been awesome talking to you.

[00:53:16] Thank you so much.

[00:53:17] Thanks for having me, Michelle.

[00:53:18] And thank you for listening.

[00:53:20] Absolutely.

[00:53:20] Thank you.

[00:53:21] It was very good.

[00:53:22] I enjoyed it.

[00:53:23] Oh, thanks.

[00:53:24] I appreciate it.

[00:53:25] Bye.

[00:53:26] Bye-bye.

[00:53:26] As we wrap up today's episode, I hope Carrie sharing her knowledge, experience, and wisdom

[00:53:31] has helped you in some way.

[00:53:33] I like how Carrie made us aware that there is even a gray area in drinking or anything for

[00:53:38] that matter.

[00:53:40] In drinking, you know, the person is not necessarily an alcoholic, but they're more than just a

[00:53:44] social drinker.

[00:53:45] They're definitely a moderate drinker.

[00:53:48] And the gray area applies to more than just drinking as well.

[00:53:51] It could be anything.

[00:53:53] One thing that stood out to me is how much Carrie emphasized emotional regulation as a

[00:53:58] key to gaining and maintaining control.

[00:54:01] And I think that's huge for a lot of things.

[00:54:03] And you also have to make sure that you're committed to yourself and you have clear intention

[00:54:08] with your actions.

[00:54:09] And then all of that can lead to good habit creation.

[00:54:13] So what stood out to you?

[00:54:14] I'd love to hear from you.

[00:54:16] As always, I hope this episode helps at least one person.

[00:54:19] And with that, I hope you have a blessed week, my friend.

[00:54:26] Thank you for listening to The Beauty and the Mess.

[00:54:29] If you enjoyed what you heard, please share it with a friend.

[00:54:32] And if you haven't already, please subscribe, rate, and review this podcast on your favorite

[00:54:36] pod player.

[00:54:37] If you have any questions or comments, any topic ideas you would like to hear about,

[00:54:42] or you think you would be a great guest on the show, you can reach me directly at

[00:54:46] thebeautyandthemess.com.

[00:54:47] Thanks for listening.