Ep. 66 School Safety: The First Five Minutes Could Save Your Child's Life with Daniel Dluzneski

[00:00:06] I'm Michele Simms and this is The Beauty in the Mess, a community where people who crave a shift in mindset, personal growth, and connection to like-minded people come together to start rewriting their stories. Through engaging, honest, and insightful conversations, the show will help you embrace the mess to recognize the meanings and the lessons it holds and discover its hidden treasures to help you start making a mindset shift. Let's listen, learn, and reclaim who we were meant to be.

[00:00:34] Hi friend, welcome to The Beauty in the Mess. For this episode I am welcoming Daniel Dluzneski to the show. Dan served with the U.S. Secret Service for over 24 years, including as a canine technician with his dog Korak. After retiring, he was responsible for the safety of over 100,000 students and 140 schools as a coordinator of emergency management, safety, and security for one of the largest school districts in Florida.

[00:01:02] In this episode, Dan stresses that you should talk to your kids about their school's emergency drills. It might be a difficult conversation, especially with teenagers, but understanding how schools handle crises is crucial. As a parent or guardian, you need to know how your school plans to handle such an emergency because there are less than optimum plans being implemented at some schools.

[00:01:25] You need to know the statistically best way that things should be handled, and you need to know how your school is handling it. If you have concerns, attend your school board meetings and make your voice heard. A united group of parents can drive change.

[00:01:41] So join me for episode 66 of The Beauty in the Mess called The First Five Minutes Can Save Your Child's Life with Daniel Dluzneski.

[00:01:49] So without further ado, let's dive right into today's conversation.

[00:01:54] Hi, Dan. Welcome to The Beauty in the Mess. I'm so glad to have you here today.

[00:01:58] Thank you, Michelle. Appreciate you having me on. It's an important subject. I know it's an uncomfortable one, but it's one that we do need to talk about.

[00:02:06] Absolutely. And with that being said, I know that you have this vast experience of actually, you were in the Secret Service, right? For how many years?

[00:02:16] Twenty-four years. Twenty-four years. Twenty-four years. And then you decided to cross over into school protection?

[00:02:22] Well, it wasn't a decision before I even retired. I was going to just retire, retire.

[00:02:27] Okay.

[00:02:28] I spent 24 years, luckily, in Washington, D.C. I started right at the end of Reagan's term and finished with Obama's term and had different aspects of my career,

[00:02:38] from K-9 to crime scene search to regular police work, dispatching, public affairs, tours of the White House.

[00:02:45] So it was a very, very varied experience when I was there.

[00:02:50] And I came down here to Florida and was going to retire, live on a beach. I was fine.

[00:02:54] Then my ex-wife now, but at the time, she said, look, you got to do something.

[00:02:58] So it only took about three months. And when you're an alpha personality, you just can't sit still.

[00:03:02] Well, and this position opened up in my county with the school system as an emergency manager.

[00:03:08] It fit my resume. I thought, I'll give it a shot.

[00:03:11] And they hired me and I was fortunate enough to be there for four years and made a lot of differences with the schools.

[00:03:16] It was an experience that I had not dealt with educators before.

[00:03:20] So that was kind of not distressing, but that was a work in progress because educators and law enforcement really don't get along that well.

[00:03:29] But it worked. I had very good backing of my office and the funds and the budget to work through and create safe spaces for kids.

[00:03:41] I'm kind of interested in I'm sure with the Secret Service that you made a lot of decisions on your own.

[00:03:47] And you know what I'm saying? I mean, it's real time. You've got to do what you got to do.

[00:03:53] So how did that change when you started working for the school? I mean, if they didn't want to do, say, what you're suggesting.

[00:04:01] You know, I didn't have autonomy. Right. Which kind of bothered me.

[00:04:04] I had to go through layers just like I do with the government.

[00:04:07] So I had to go through a superintendent or excuse me, an assistant superintendent who had to go through a superintendent who had to go through a school board.

[00:04:14] So all this kind of stuff really was it just took a lot of patience.

[00:04:19] But also what I was saying was basically common sense. Most of the schools when I started now we're talking 2013 2014.

[00:04:26] We had three foot high fences. That's nothing. That's the waste. Three foot high fences.

[00:04:32] So we had to make it at least six foot high. And when I was talking to myself, how do you announce your lockdowns or how do you announce your emergencies?

[00:04:39] Oh, we use codes. And it just blew me because I was like, what? Why are you using codes?

[00:04:45] In fact, there's schools in the United States that still use codes, which is just ridiculous.

[00:04:49] They use plain language. And that took a while. They couldn't get used to using plain language.

[00:04:53] I said, come on. If it's a lockdown, say lockdown. If it's a fire, say fire. If it's a bomb, say it.

[00:04:58] No, you're not going to upset anyone. It's better to be informed because if you've got someone there, obviously you say code red.

[00:05:05] Everyone's like, well, it sounds dangerous, but what is it?

[00:05:08] No, you're going to have people that have no idea what you're talking about, just speaking plain language.

[00:05:12] So, I mean, just an aside, I had this story. It was an elementary school.

[00:05:16] And I went to them. I said, how do you announce your lockdown drills when you have to go into a lockdown?

[00:05:21] Let's say you have an active incident at the school.

[00:05:24] And they said, oh, we make the announcement that the pony is being delivered today.

[00:05:28] And I what I just I was like, why would you?

[00:05:33] And they didn't want to upset anybody. They didn't want to upset the kids.

[00:05:35] Upset them. That would be like there's a pony coming today. Oh, my God.

[00:05:38] What is he's a pony? That's what I was going to say. Now they're anticipating.

[00:05:43] And I was expecting something dangerous. So it just I was like, no, no, no, don't.

[00:05:48] You have to use plain language. So that took a while.

[00:05:51] Anyway, it was just a process. And that's the same thing with security. It's a process.

[00:05:56] When you have someone dangerous on your campus, you basically want to slow them down.

[00:06:00] So it's just layers of security. Any school system that does this is going to be way ahead of anybody else.

[00:06:08] It's not about technology. You want to slow them down.

[00:06:11] So the fencing, obviously, your front entrance is going to be the only entrance they will use during the school day.

[00:06:17] Once the school starts, you'll have shut everything else down.

[00:06:19] One entrance. They'll come into an enclosed lobby area and they'll have to be checked in.

[00:06:25] And if they're not allowed in, they have to leave the same way they came in.

[00:06:29] And that's it. Same thing with the classroom doors.

[00:06:31] Again, this took me four years to finally get it.

[00:06:34] Have your classroom doors locked during school time.

[00:06:38] Now, the pushback you get from teachers is, oh, my gosh, I've got kids want to go to the bathroom.

[00:06:43] I got kids got a hall pass. I got kids doing this.

[00:06:45] I get open and close that door all day. Tough.

[00:06:48] Keep it locked. You're one step ahead.

[00:06:50] Because for a lockdown, it's very simple.

[00:06:53] The door is already locked.

[00:06:55] You shut the lights off.

[00:06:56] You close the blinds.

[00:06:58] Kids sit on the floor away from the windows and door.

[00:07:01] You silence your phone and you're very quiet.

[00:07:04] You don't listen to any announcements.

[00:07:06] You don't open that door.

[00:07:08] No bells, whistles, nothing.

[00:07:10] You don't listen to any of that stuff.

[00:07:12] Now, the question I get, the pushback I get is, well, what if they set off the fire alarm?

[00:07:17] This is something that's a one in a million shot.

[00:07:19] I mean, it happened to Margie Stoneman Douglas because that was one school.

[00:07:22] It's not something that's going to be, I want people to hypothetically think,

[00:07:25] because you can hypothetical all this stuff, you know, forever.

[00:07:29] Don't worry about them setting off a fire alarm.

[00:07:32] Right now, I wouldn't be concerned about that.

[00:07:34] Keep it simple.

[00:07:35] Door locked, lights off, blinds closed, sit on the floor quality.

[00:07:38] The good guys are coming.

[00:07:39] That's it.

[00:07:40] What's happening now, and it's been happening now for the past four or five years,

[00:07:45] is a lot of school systems said, ah, no, that's old.

[00:07:50] We've been doing that since Columbine.

[00:07:51] We don't want to do this lockdown stuff anymore.

[00:07:54] We want to do something different.

[00:07:56] So the difference is that what they want to do is called options-based training.

[00:08:00] So what they did was they said, okay, teachers, we're going to put the burden on you as a teacher

[00:08:05] to make the decision if you stay in a lockdown in your classroom

[00:08:09] or if you're going to run out of that room to a designated area, okay?

[00:08:14] So here's a teacher without this kind of training.

[00:08:17] They're not law enforcement.

[00:08:18] They're not military.

[00:08:19] They're a teacher.

[00:08:19] They didn't sign up for this.

[00:08:20] Right.

[00:08:21] And an incident happens.

[00:08:22] Let's say a gunman is on campus.

[00:08:24] And now that teacher has to make this decision with liability, guilt, litigation,

[00:08:29] all going through their head going, I have no idea what to do.

[00:08:33] That's what that was just going to add.

[00:08:35] Should I run?

[00:08:37] It's like, are you kidding me?

[00:08:39] Why are you putting this burden on teachers?

[00:08:42] So this idea, and even my school system is doing that with this options-based training.

[00:08:46] It's like, what?

[00:08:47] And I talked to parents that have children in schools, middle school, elementary school.

[00:08:52] I said, talk to your kids.

[00:08:53] Ask them in an emergency if they would want to run out of the classroom.

[00:08:58] And these kids aren't dumb.

[00:08:59] I mean, they're not naive.

[00:09:01] I had one middle schooler say to his mom, he said,

[00:09:03] Mom, why would I run out into the hallway if there's a gunman on campus?

[00:09:08] He says, I'm going to get shot.

[00:09:09] Right.

[00:09:10] Thank you.

[00:09:11] Common sense.

[00:09:12] Stay in the classroom.

[00:09:13] Stay locked down.

[00:09:14] Nothing to do.

[00:09:15] We'll play devil's advocate.

[00:09:17] I have a lot of law enforcement, ex-law enforcement saying, oh, you don't want them locked in that classroom.

[00:09:22] They're sitting ducks.

[00:09:24] We got to get them out of there.

[00:09:26] Why?

[00:09:27] Well, because they're sitting ducks.

[00:09:28] They're not sitting ducks.

[00:09:30] There's been one incident, only one in the entire school shootings over the years.

[00:09:38] Long time ago.

[00:09:39] I want to say 2005.

[00:09:40] Red Lake, Minnesota.

[00:09:41] It was a Native American institution.

[00:09:43] And we had a reservation, excuse me.

[00:09:45] And we had an individual who shot his grandfather, came in, shot a security guard, shot a policeman, grabbed his gun, came to the classroom and saw a locked door.

[00:09:55] Well, it took him three times he shot at that door.

[00:09:57] It still didn't unlock.

[00:09:58] Finally, he decided to break through a glass window and got in that way.

[00:10:02] They're not going to shoot out a locked door.

[00:10:05] They're not.

[00:10:05] It takes too long.

[00:10:06] It's just beyond what they would do because they have a clock in their head.

[00:10:10] They're not going to shoot out a locked door.

[00:10:11] Even if something came to that, where you're in a classroom and someone's trying to break in the door, you can easily barricade it with the file cabinets and desks that you have in there.

[00:10:20] But again, I don't even mention that because it's not going to happen.

[00:10:22] They're not going to shoot through a locked door.

[00:10:24] They want easy access.

[00:10:25] I give the example of the video of the Nashville shooting where that individual shot out the glass doors and came in.

[00:10:32] And you saw that individual try the doors.

[00:10:35] Locked, move on.

[00:10:36] Locked, move on.

[00:10:37] Open, go in.

[00:10:38] They disregard locked doors because they know what's going on with these drills.

[00:10:43] They know.

[00:10:43] They've been doing this stuff for three or four months looking at this stuff.

[00:10:46] So this idea that they're somehow sitting ducks, we got to get them out, blah, blah, blah.

[00:10:53] No.

[00:10:54] Sitting in a lockdown.

[00:10:55] And that's why I named my book The First Five Minutes because the FBI data showed the average time of a shooter was between three and five minutes.

[00:11:04] And the police are on their way.

[00:11:05] The good guys are on their way.

[00:11:07] But in those five minutes, you're on your own.

[00:11:10] You got to wait till the police arrive.

[00:11:11] So sit quietly in that room.

[00:11:13] Help is on its way.

[00:11:14] I know the feeling because I've talked to principals and we've seen it, Michelle.

[00:11:20] We've seen it in Sandy Hook.

[00:11:22] Principal came out and tried to talk down the shooter that shot dead.

[00:11:25] Individual Marjorie Stoneman Douglas, a gym teacher, came out and tried to confront the shooter.

[00:11:30] He was shot.

[00:11:31] Nashville, principal came out, tried to confront the shooter.

[00:11:34] This has happened over and over.

[00:11:35] And just recently, Iowa, that principal came out and tried to talk down the shooter and got shot.

[00:11:41] So this idea, and I don't know, maybe it's just when you're an educator or something,

[00:11:46] you feel that there's a need for you to go out and talk to someone when you're unarmed and figure you're going to talk them down.

[00:11:51] It's not going to happen.

[00:11:52] They're beyond all that.

[00:11:54] Right.

[00:11:54] And I believe it comes from this type of training.

[00:11:57] It's called ALICE training.

[00:11:58] Now, I don't want to jump ahead too far.

[00:12:00] One of the first things that they came out with for active shooters at locations like businesses, it was called Run, Hide, Fight.

[00:12:08] And Run, Hide, Fight has been in for a long time, about 20 years.

[00:12:11] They did a video a long time ago, a department of Homeland Security with the Houston Police Department.

[00:12:16] It's a good video.

[00:12:17] I mean, it's old, but it's got that movie theater narration, you know, and they got the guy all dressed in black coming in with a shotgun.

[00:12:23] It's all scary.

[00:12:24] And he says, if you can run, then run.

[00:12:27] Run to a designated area, call 911.

[00:12:29] If you can't, then you need to hide in an office, under a desk, whatever.

[00:12:33] Then if it comes to, right down the line, if he's right there and you have to fight, then find something to fight with.

[00:12:40] But it's for adults.

[00:12:41] It's for business.

[00:12:42] It's not for schools.

[00:12:44] Oh, wow.

[00:12:44] Somehow it got transferred over to schools.

[00:12:47] I can't imagine a little child fighting.

[00:12:51] Even middle school, high school.

[00:12:52] I'm not going to have my students.

[00:12:53] My kid's 17 years old.

[00:12:54] He's a big kid.

[00:12:55] Do I want him fighting a gunman?

[00:12:57] No.

[00:12:58] I don't want him running or anything like that.

[00:13:00] Stay in the classroom.

[00:13:01] Lock it down.

[00:13:02] So, and this is happening.

[00:13:03] There are schools where this is happening.

[00:13:05] And the problem with this is, and this training that is about what I consider the same, it's just a little different.

[00:13:11] This Alice training.

[00:13:13] And Alice is a private company.

[00:13:15] They market their business for having individuals come out to their business and get two days of training.

[00:13:21] Then they're certified and they can go and talk to the classroom to talk to schools about this.

[00:13:25] It's usually law enforcement that does this.

[00:13:27] And Alice stands for, and I don't want to confuse you, but Alice stands for alert, lockdown, inform, counter, and evacuate.

[00:13:36] Right.

[00:13:36] All right.

[00:13:37] We've got the first two I agree with.

[00:13:38] You need the alert, whether it's automatic or someone goes over a PA system.

[00:13:43] Locked down.

[00:13:44] Perfect.

[00:13:44] Yes, you should be locked down.

[00:13:46] The third part is inform.

[00:13:48] And for Alice training, what they're supposed to do is an individual, someone, is supposed to inform the entire campus, looking at cameras, where the gunman is and where they're going.

[00:14:00] But there's no camera system that I know of in existence that can do this.

[00:14:05] Wow.

[00:14:06] You've got some seat on a hallway in one direction or they're saying, but they're not, they don't know where the gunman's going.

[00:14:10] They turn around and go the other way, whatever.

[00:14:12] So that's, that doesn't work.

[00:14:14] The C stands for counter.

[00:14:16] So instead of fight, because they wanted to get away from that fight word, the counter means not only teachers, but students are supposed to throw things precisely all at the same time at a gunman if they ever get in that classroom.

[00:14:31] Now, can you imagine you're a parent and you've got a 10 year old, an eight year old, maybe a 15 year old, and you're saying, wait, you're going to, you're going to train my kid to do what?

[00:14:42] To throw things at a gunman?

[00:14:44] That's almost like provoking him.

[00:14:46] You know?

[00:14:47] Yes.

[00:14:48] Thank you, Michelle.

[00:14:49] Thank you.

[00:14:49] And the other thing is you train them for what, an hour and a half?

[00:14:53] Okay.

[00:14:53] Six months go by and here comes a gunman.

[00:14:55] So they have done nothing.

[00:14:56] I mean, it's like athletics or law enforcement, military to precisely do this at a moment where you talk about chaos, emotional.

[00:15:05] I mean, just this horrible event and you're supposed to throw things precisely all at the same time at this individual.

[00:15:12] It's just absolutely crazy.

[00:15:14] Yet these educators take it and say, oh yeah.

[00:15:17] And they like it because it's reactive.

[00:15:20] They don't like this lockdown thing where you sit on the floor and wait for law enforcement to come because that's very passive.

[00:15:26] We don't want to be passive.

[00:15:27] We want to be reactive.

[00:15:28] We want to do something.

[00:15:30] Well, by doing something, you're putting these kids in more danger.

[00:15:33] Right.

[00:15:33] Because what's happening, Michelle, this training and run, hide, fight.

[00:15:37] Right now, and I mean, the number I'm sure has gone up.

[00:15:41] I've got a gentleman that works for a company called Safe Havens International.

[00:15:44] Right now, the money is $130 million have been paid out in liability and litigation fees by school systems that run these type of drills.

[00:15:54] Run, hide, fight or Alice.

[00:15:57] They're dangerous and they're unsound.

[00:15:59] Stay away from them.

[00:16:00] As a parent, grandparent, aunt, aunt, whatever.

[00:16:04] If you hear that your school, ask your kids.

[00:16:07] If you hear that your school system is running any type of drill that says run, hide, fight or Alice, that's a red flag.

[00:16:14] That should go up immediately.

[00:16:16] I've heard of Alice.

[00:16:18] Yeah.

[00:16:18] And you should go to the school.

[00:16:20] I don't care.

[00:16:21] You should call them first, obviously, and they're not going to listen to you because they're going to do what they're going to do.

[00:16:25] Go in front of the school board.

[00:16:26] You could probably get it's three minutes.

[00:16:28] I know school board meetings are a pain because they're only three minutes long.

[00:16:31] You can get a good page and a half in there and tell them you disagree with this.

[00:16:35] If that school should tell your student, your child, when this training is going on, pull them out.

[00:16:42] Wow.

[00:16:42] I'm not having my child do that.

[00:16:43] There's no child psychologist.

[00:16:45] There's no child health development, mental health development that agrees with run, hide, fight or this Alice training.

[00:16:52] They don't agree with it.

[00:16:52] Wow.

[00:16:53] That's huge.

[00:16:54] It's dangerous.

[00:16:55] So if you hear this, call the school and find out what's going on.

[00:16:59] If they don't want to listen to you, talk to your legislators.

[00:17:01] Say this is wrong.

[00:17:03] And you can point out.

[00:17:04] It's called the website.

[00:17:06] Excuse me.

[00:17:07] It's called safe havens international dot org.

[00:17:10] Safe havens international dot org.

[00:17:12] Look them up.

[00:17:12] They've got the research.

[00:17:14] You can print it out.

[00:17:15] Bring it to the school board.

[00:17:15] Hey, here's the research on this thing.

[00:17:17] It's millions of dollars you guys have paid out.

[00:17:20] Find out from that school lawyer.

[00:17:21] Are you willing to pay if something happens during one of these drills?

[00:17:24] What are you doing?

[00:17:26] So I go out.

[00:17:28] It's just common sense.

[00:17:29] The heck with this other stuff.

[00:17:31] Technology is another thing.

[00:17:32] Don't listen to the thing of a bunch of parents saying, hey, we need metal detectors.

[00:17:37] And the school will say, great.

[00:17:39] We got a grant.

[00:17:39] We'll put in metal detectors.

[00:17:41] Now we're safe.

[00:17:41] No, you're not.

[00:17:43] Metal detectors are nothing but security theater.

[00:17:45] That's it.

[00:17:46] That's all they are.

[00:17:47] They are a waste of money.

[00:17:48] Anyone who's insane enough to go in and shoot people, you think a metal detector is going

[00:17:52] to stop them?

[00:17:53] No.

[00:17:53] Just go right through it.

[00:17:55] Guns in schools.

[00:17:57] More often than not, you're going to have guns or weapons, knives in schools.

[00:18:02] I understand you want to be prepared for an active shooter event.

[00:18:05] I understand that, which is a good thing.

[00:18:08] But it's like being struck by lightning or winning the lottery.

[00:18:10] More than likely, it's not going to happen in your school.

[00:18:12] I don't want that mindset.

[00:18:13] Well, oh, no, it'll never happen here.

[00:18:14] I want the mindset that it may never happen here, but we're prepared.

[00:18:18] What's happening more recently is guns and weapons in schools.

[00:18:22] And they're easy to get into.

[00:18:24] Because, Michelle, during an athletic event, during the weekends, your buddy, hey, I was

[00:18:30] enough to say what's in the backpack, throws it to a window.

[00:18:32] Hey, throw it in my locker for me.

[00:18:33] There's probably a gun or a weapon in there.

[00:18:35] So it's pretty easy to get a weapon into the school system.

[00:18:39] And that's where you have to concentrate on what happens then.

[00:18:43] That's another, a different subject, a different reaction than an actual school shooter.

[00:18:48] If someone's got a weapon in there, it's more than likely they're either being bullied.

[00:18:52] It's a gang thing.

[00:18:54] Maybe they just feel safer to have that gun in there.

[00:18:56] Maybe they're being bullied.

[00:18:57] We don't know.

[00:18:58] That's more on the mental health side of this.

[00:19:01] And that's another thing.

[00:19:03] It's not my lane.

[00:19:05] But most schools now have what's called a threat assessment team.

[00:19:08] And that team will meet once a week.

[00:19:10] And they'll have administrators.

[00:19:12] They'll have the school resource officers, the HPO, everybody there to talk about individuals.

[00:19:17] They have file on all these individuals.

[00:19:19] It's tough.

[00:19:20] Because what happens is you'll get to a point where unless somebody said something,

[00:19:26] unless they have factual evidence right there, it really is tough.

[00:19:30] Because now you get into civil rights area.

[00:19:31] Are we allowed to search his locker or her locker?

[00:19:33] Are we allowed to look at their social media pages or their computer to see if they're making threats?

[00:19:39] It's very tough.

[00:19:40] So the main thing is, I say, it's the same to go back after 9-11.

[00:19:45] See something.

[00:19:46] Say something.

[00:19:46] And we've had a lot of kids that will say something to a representative adult that they trust to say,

[00:19:53] hey, John, he's acting pretty weird.

[00:19:55] I heard him talk about threatening the school.

[00:19:57] Or Susan over here seems suicidal.

[00:19:59] Just say something.

[00:20:00] You're not snitching.

[00:20:01] Have ownership in your school.

[00:20:03] And like I like to say, a lot of kids also nowadays, they have these school conferences or meetings that they have.

[00:20:10] And most of them now are defenders of a transgender person or this one's bullied or this one is a different color.

[00:20:18] Fine.

[00:20:19] That's great.

[00:20:20] However, take ownership of your school.

[00:20:23] Each one of these individuals could easily walk around the school and just check the doors.

[00:20:27] I guarantee you, Michelle, I can go to a high school today.

[00:20:30] Hey, I'll find an open door because they'll use these triangle wedges to wedge the door open.

[00:20:35] And they'll wedge them open.

[00:20:37] Why?

[00:20:37] The teacher stepped out for a smoke.

[00:20:39] They're getting a pizza delivery.

[00:20:40] Maybe somebody's late and they open the door for a buddy and they'll put that wedge in there so they know which door is open.

[00:20:45] And don't you think someone's watching?

[00:20:47] Right.

[00:20:48] The majority of these shooters are either current students or they're former students.

[00:20:52] And they're watching.

[00:20:53] And it takes months.

[00:20:55] It's not something where they woke up one day and said, I'm going to grab a gun and shoot up a school.

[00:20:59] This takes months of planning, months of this stuff, and they finally decide on the day.

[00:21:05] And they know which doors are going to be open, which ones are going to be wedged open.

[00:21:09] So I plead with these schools, have your kids just walk around.

[00:21:14] Walk around.

[00:21:15] You're not snitching again.

[00:21:16] You see a door open.

[00:21:17] Say something to one of the teachers or the administrators.

[00:21:20] The second thing is school resource officers, armed school resource officers.

[00:21:24] Probably the best thing you can do for a school.

[00:21:26] If you've got the budget, have an armed school resource officer.

[00:21:30] Now, some of them are hired by local police.

[00:21:33] So they are in uniform.

[00:21:35] They are police officers.

[00:21:37] I'm lucky where I am.

[00:21:38] The majority of us are actually school resource officers that don't have arrest powers.

[00:21:42] They carry a weapon.

[00:21:44] But they go through intensive training.

[00:21:46] And they are advocates for the school, the parents, administrators.

[00:21:50] There's, I hear, I mean, I'm on LinkedIn a lot.

[00:21:53] I hear a lot where kids will come to these SROs and say something's going on here and it'll stop an incident.

[00:21:59] And that happens a lot more than what you hear on the media.

[00:22:02] A lot more incidents stop all this.

[00:22:04] Wow.

[00:22:05] So that's number one.

[00:22:07] Get the school resource officer in there.

[00:22:08] Can I ask you a question?

[00:22:10] Absolutely.

[00:22:10] Like I know my kids' school, it's pretty and it's nice.

[00:22:14] But to me, the issue is it's all glass, right?

[00:22:18] Especially in the elementary area.

[00:22:20] And why do I even have to bother with the door?

[00:22:22] I can just blow the glass out.

[00:22:24] And to me, it's horrifying.

[00:22:25] And I just wonder, have you seen that in your experiences?

[00:22:29] Or because the doors are glass too, right?

[00:22:32] So what if you put up the metal detector?

[00:22:35] They can blow the door out.

[00:22:36] I don't understand.

[00:22:37] Yeah, I get it.

[00:22:38] And when I work with the county, I remember I was in the same office where we had all the architects, all the builders.

[00:22:46] And I would see the blueprints.

[00:22:48] And I would go to them.

[00:22:49] I said, what is this area here next to this classroom?

[00:22:52] We said, oh, that's an observation window.

[00:22:54] Like, what?

[00:22:55] Well, they want kids and teachers to be able to observe a class if they want to.

[00:23:00] And I said, well, is it bulletproof?

[00:23:02] Well, no, we can't afford that.

[00:23:04] I said, well, why would you have this big glass window there?

[00:23:07] Well, we heard that these kids want to observe a class.

[00:23:10] I said, no, no.

[00:23:11] But I didn't have the power to take it away.

[00:23:13] I couldn't take it away.

[00:23:14] And you're right.

[00:23:15] Why go through the door?

[00:23:16] Right.

[00:23:16] I'll just break through the window and get in there.

[00:23:18] And everybody needed it.

[00:23:19] Exactly.

[00:23:19] The teachers didn't like it because they thought they were being observed for evaluation.

[00:23:23] I hated it because you could just bust through the window.

[00:23:26] Right.

[00:23:27] And you know what?

[00:23:28] I forgot, you know, on all these podcasts, I forgot about this.

[00:23:31] Years ago, they used to have glass with wire in it.

[00:23:34] And this little wire that crisscrossed in the glass.

[00:23:37] Right.

[00:23:37] But what happened was a kid put his hand through the window and cut himself.

[00:23:41] He said, oh, no.

[00:23:42] Well, we can't have that anymore.

[00:23:44] Great.

[00:23:44] So what do you got?

[00:23:45] You got like tempered glass.

[00:23:46] That's all you got.

[00:23:47] Easily can break through a window.

[00:23:49] Now, there are ways to mitigate that.

[00:23:52] There are window film out there.

[00:23:55] But like you said, a lot of these schools are all glass because they want that welcoming

[00:24:00] environment.

[00:24:01] Right.

[00:24:01] They want to be welcoming.

[00:24:03] They want to be contemporary with all this glass that they surround it with.

[00:24:07] And of course, it's not bulletproof because that's way too expensive.

[00:24:10] There is window film out there that they can put over the glass that won't.

[00:24:14] It actually won't stop a bullet, but it'll again, slow down.

[00:24:18] You'd have to hit it with multiple times with a bullet to break the glass.

[00:24:22] But again, you're talking to the boss.

[00:24:24] So why put up the glass in the first place if now you have to mitigate it with some kind

[00:24:28] of film or something else?

[00:24:29] So no, I absolutely agree with you.

[00:24:31] It's the wrong thing to do.

[00:24:33] You can still make that school look very welcoming, but you don't need all that glass.

[00:24:37] I mean, just figure it out.

[00:24:40] I mean, come on.

[00:24:41] It just makes no sense.

[00:24:42] To me, it's just a facade that we're trying to be extra safe when, like I said, they can

[00:24:47] just blow out any window they want.

[00:24:49] Yeah.

[00:24:50] Yeah.

[00:24:50] And I have another question for you.

[00:24:52] This is a true story happened to one of my daughters.

[00:24:55] They had a lockdown.

[00:24:56] I think a kid was threatening another kid on the bus and I thought he had a gun.

[00:25:01] I don't know what happened.

[00:25:02] The lockdown was a surprise, right?

[00:25:05] My kids in the restroom.

[00:25:07] And so all the teachers lock their doors.

[00:25:09] They're sheltering in place.

[00:25:11] My kid hears it.

[00:25:12] I guess she heard it.

[00:25:13] She goes running back to her classroom.

[00:25:15] Teacher won't open the door.

[00:25:16] Right.

[00:25:17] So now she's in the hallway and she's having a full blown.

[00:25:20] I think she's going into panic mode and she just starts beating on every door.

[00:25:25] Finally, one teacher opened the door, ripped her in and locked her in her classroom.

[00:25:29] Thank God.

[00:25:29] But, you know, what if you're that child and it happens suddenly and you're in the restroom

[00:25:35] or you're in a hallway?

[00:25:36] What do you do?

[00:25:38] She should have stayed in the restroom.

[00:25:39] In fact, this should have been explained to the students beforehand during the drill.

[00:25:43] In fact, we taught that.

[00:25:45] We drilled for that purpose.

[00:25:47] If you're caught in the hallway or if you're caught in the restroom, stay right there.

[00:25:51] Had an elementary school where that happened, where we ran the drill because we wanted to

[00:25:56] do it unannounced and these kids were in the restroom.

[00:25:58] And we told them, keep the door closed, stand up on the toilet so they can't see your feet

[00:26:03] and just be quiet and you're perfectly safe.

[00:26:07] You'll be safe.

[00:26:08] Just stay there until we come and get you.

[00:26:10] So just, yeah, just stay in the restroom.

[00:26:12] Okay.

[00:26:12] Because if you're in a panic, like you said, you're going from door to door and those teachers

[00:26:16] have no idea what's on the other side of that door.

[00:26:19] Oh, yeah.

[00:26:20] I understand why she didn't open that door, but as the parent, it's horrifying.

[00:26:24] Oh, yeah.

[00:26:25] Oh, no, I agree.

[00:26:26] I absolutely agree.

[00:26:27] But yeah, just stay in the restroom, put your feet up over the toilet, keep the door closed

[00:26:31] and you'll be fine.

[00:26:33] They'll come and get you.

[00:26:34] Okay.

[00:26:34] Yeah.

[00:26:34] I can't say that they weren't trained for that, but I don't recall them ever talking about

[00:26:39] that.

[00:26:39] So for her, it was a surprise.

[00:26:41] And I think you have both the, if I don't go back, I'm going to get in trouble and I'm

[00:26:46] horrified.

[00:26:47] I don't know what to do.

[00:26:48] I don't want to be by myself.

[00:26:49] She was pretty young then and she didn't know what to do.

[00:26:52] Yeah.

[00:26:53] No, I get it.

[00:26:54] I get it.

[00:26:55] They should train students and just tell them if that happens, this is what you need to

[00:26:59] do.

[00:26:59] I mean, we used to have kids out of recess and we really didn't know what to do at that

[00:27:03] point.

[00:27:04] I said, well, it's really up to the coach.

[00:27:05] You can't, again, hypothetical everything.

[00:27:07] But if you're out at recess, we told them, well, don't come back to the school.

[00:27:12] That coach should already have in his head a secondary location.

[00:27:15] That's where you go to.

[00:27:16] Wow.

[00:27:16] A church, the Walmart, whatever, across the street, run the other way.

[00:27:20] Don't come back into the school system and to the school building.

[00:27:23] Excuse me.

[00:27:24] So, yeah.

[00:27:25] So that brings up another question for me, if you don't mind.

[00:27:28] Sure.

[00:27:28] I have a daughter now who's a teacher and right now she's teaching kindergarten.

[00:27:33] So if they're out at recess, I mean, you have all these little kindergartners.

[00:27:37] Yeah.

[00:27:38] What do you, I mean, how do you even keep them together?

[00:27:40] Yeah.

[00:27:41] It's like herding cats, you know?

[00:27:42] It is.

[00:27:43] It is.

[00:27:44] The nice thing about kindergartners, first graders, they listen to the teacher.

[00:27:48] Okay.

[00:27:49] You get it in the middle of high school, they're, you know, they got a mind of their own.

[00:27:52] The nice about kindergartners, you tell them to do something, they're going to do it.

[00:27:57] Straight line.

[00:27:58] Be quiet.

[00:27:58] Follow me.

[00:27:59] Whatever it is.

[00:28:00] So that's a good thing that whatever she needs to do, whether it's take them away or lead them to another building,

[00:28:07] sometimes they'll have separate buildings where they put the lawnmowers and they put the athletic equipment,

[00:28:12] whatever it is to keep them safe.

[00:28:15] They'll listen to the teacher.

[00:28:16] That's a good thing.

[00:28:17] I need to ask her, but I don't think they have a plan or she has a plan that, you know,

[00:28:24] if they're out at recess, because they're always told to shelter in place and they always rehearse it in the classrooms.

[00:28:28] Right.

[00:28:29] And they lock the doors.

[00:28:31] I don't think they've ever done an event where they rehearse them outside.

[00:28:35] They need a safety plan and they should have one along with also liaison with the police department.

[00:28:42] So they need to have the safety plan and go over it with these teachers.

[00:28:45] Because a lot of times, Michelle, what I found that happens when you have substitute teachers.

[00:28:50] I've had plenty of times that substitute teachers have no idea what's going on.

[00:28:54] They don't have the right keys.

[00:28:55] They have no idea what to do in an emergency.

[00:28:57] Finally, I had the headquarters of the location of the school system say, look, it's a universal thing.

[00:29:05] Every substitute should be taught the same way.

[00:29:07] I don't care elementary, middle or high school.

[00:29:09] They all should be taught the same way what happens in an emergency.

[00:29:12] So that was one thing because you constantly have substitutes.

[00:29:16] Teachers take time off or whatever, the sick leave, whatever.

[00:29:19] So that's important also.

[00:29:21] Make sure your substitutes know what's going on.

[00:29:23] But again, I point back to the book and I'm not here to sell the book because it's just a basic guide.

[00:29:27] It's only 77 pages.

[00:29:29] It's a guidebook.

[00:29:30] And in that guidebook, I've got this credit card size laminated card.

[00:29:35] I laminated it.

[00:29:35] Sorry.

[00:29:36] It's in the book.

[00:29:37] You can download it.

[00:29:38] On here, you've got threatening weather, lockdown, fire, emergency.

[00:29:42] Because what's going to happen, like you said, people are going to panic.

[00:29:45] Right.

[00:29:45] And teachers may panic.

[00:29:48] So it's something that fits on your lanyard with your ID, with your copier card.

[00:29:51] And if you forget something, you just quickly look down.

[00:29:53] Oh, my gosh, I forgot to close the windows.

[00:29:55] Whatever it was, it'll be on here.

[00:29:57] Because the reason I thought of this is I had a doctor friend and she said, oh, yeah.

[00:30:02] She says, we have these cards for all these colors.

[00:30:05] I'm like, really?

[00:30:06] She goes, yeah, I work the emergency room.

[00:30:07] They come up with a code purple.

[00:30:08] We haven't had purple in years.

[00:30:10] I got to look at what the heck purple is.

[00:30:11] So it's just a reminder and a reference card that you can get to very easily within the book.

[00:30:16] But anyways, like I said, the book is just a common sense, short, concise guidebook to look through and just give you what you need.

[00:30:25] Go ahead and tell us the name of that again.

[00:30:27] So it's called The First Five Minutes.

[00:30:30] It's on Amazon.

[00:30:31] If you type in The First Five Minutes, it should come up in one through searches there.

[00:30:36] OK.

[00:30:36] And again, it's a short book.

[00:30:38] You can read it in an hour and a half easily.

[00:30:40] And again, I just did it as a guidebook.

[00:30:43] I did not want a 200 to 300 page diatribe that's going to sit on a shelf and collect dust, which is boring.

[00:30:49] Just wanted something you can think of.

[00:30:51] And I mentioned there about implicit memory because a lot of these drills, they'll run them like every six months, some places once a year.

[00:30:59] It's not enough.

[00:31:00] You don't want to back down to go every month because then it's like too much.

[00:31:04] So you kind of figure out by the school system how often to run these drills.

[00:31:08] And the implicit memory is just like, oh, I heard a lockdown announcement.

[00:31:12] I know what to do.

[00:31:13] Doors locked, lights off, blind, sit on the floor.

[00:31:16] That's it.

[00:31:17] So it's just something where I talk about implicit memory when you put a seatbelt on, you button a shirt, you know, whatever.

[00:31:24] You do it without thinking.

[00:31:26] It becomes rote.

[00:31:27] And so that's the idea of just having this mental ability where you can just boom.

[00:31:33] Oh, lockdown?

[00:31:34] No, I know what to do.

[00:31:34] We've done it over and over again.

[00:31:35] It comes where, because you want to be calm.

[00:31:38] You don't want to panic.

[00:31:39] And I'll tell you, Michelle, even with that, people are going to panic.

[00:31:43] No one knows how they're going to react in an emergency.

[00:31:46] No one knows.

[00:31:46] Even I don't know.

[00:31:47] I mean, I think I would know, but I don't know.

[00:31:49] You have no idea.

[00:31:50] I had a school in North County, and it was an assistant principal who was very up on all the emergency.

[00:31:56] She ran the drills.

[00:31:57] She had after action with her people, talked to them all the time at these meetings.

[00:32:01] This is what we need to do.

[00:32:02] Be prepared, all this kind of stuff.

[00:32:03] I don't want you panicking, but this is what we need to do.

[00:32:05] Anyway, across the street from then, there was an individual who didn't like his mom's boyfriend.

[00:32:10] So he got himself a weapon, and he started shooting at the outside of the house.

[00:32:14] Well, some of these shots sprayed over into the building of the school.

[00:32:18] The school goes into a lockdown, which is what they should have done.

[00:32:21] They've done lockdown drills numerous times, okay?

[00:32:25] Individuals captured.

[00:32:26] Nobody got hurt.

[00:32:26] Everything was fine.

[00:32:28] The assistant principal does an after action report.

[00:32:30] She goes in there.

[00:32:31] She finds out one third of her teachers froze.

[00:32:35] Just didn't do anything.

[00:32:37] Wow.

[00:32:37] They just froze because it was a live one instead of a drill.

[00:32:40] So you don't know.

[00:32:42] That's why you drill over and over to get it.

[00:32:44] And I used to hate in the Secret Service, we'd have to qualify with our weapons.

[00:32:48] Every month, every month, we had to qualify with this weapon and get a certain score.

[00:32:54] And it was, oh, my God, I got to do this again.

[00:32:57] But it became so physically and mentally implicit.

[00:33:01] It just, boom, you just did it.

[00:33:03] And because over and over again, the repetition.

[00:33:06] So this idea of drilling purposely and often enough so your staff feels confident and calm is what you want.

[00:33:18] So, Dan, have you seen any teachers or parents, for that matter, that have been able to change the school to where they do drill more often?

[00:33:27] I was going to say, I don't think parents think they have a say in any of this.

[00:33:31] They do.

[00:33:32] That's the problem I had when I first started these podcasts is I was talking to teachers and administrators and I found out a lot of them agreed with me.

[00:33:38] But they were like, Dan, our hands are tied.

[00:33:41] We're getting it from the legislature, from the school board telling us what to do.

[00:33:45] I don't want to lose my job over this.

[00:33:46] I have to do these drills, even though I don't agree with them.

[00:33:50] So that's why I've turned to parents, because parents do have now have a lot of power after the pandemic.

[00:33:54] They saw how these students are being taught and they saw what they were being taught.

[00:33:58] They're like, oh, my God, what is this?

[00:34:00] They can go in front of the school board easily and get the research, like I said, from that organization and tell them, I don't agree with this.

[00:34:07] I don't agree with these drills are making your children dangerous.

[00:34:10] You're putting my children that you're running out of a classroom when there's a gunman there.

[00:34:13] Are you out of your mind?

[00:34:14] I don't want a kid to do it.

[00:34:15] Right. And putting that decision on a teacher who's in a horrible situation to begin with.

[00:34:21] And as you know, there are kids.

[00:34:23] I mean, I've even told my son, he's 17.

[00:34:25] I said, you're in lockdown.

[00:34:26] I said, you don't listen to the teacher.

[00:34:27] You stay in lockdown.

[00:34:28] You're not going anywhere.

[00:34:29] And I bet you've got a lot of little kids or former military, their parents or former police or current police and their families.

[00:34:36] And these kids, I'm sure the teacher's like, come on, we're going to run out of here.

[00:34:39] And these kids are going, oh, no, my daddy and my mommy said, I stay down in lockdown in the classroom.

[00:34:43] So you're going to get that issue, too, because you've got 25, 30 kids, like you said, with kindergarten herding cats.

[00:34:49] And they're going to be screaming and crying and they're going to hear horrible noises.

[00:34:53] Why would you put them out in the hallway and have them run?

[00:34:56] Because I tell you what, Michelle, what's happened in these drills?

[00:34:58] They're walking.

[00:34:59] They're walking like it's a day in the park.

[00:35:02] Come on, kids, we're going to go for a walk.

[00:35:03] We're going to go out here and we're going to exit out over here.

[00:35:05] We're going to stand over here because we want to stay away from the bad guy.

[00:35:09] But when the real event happens, it's not just one classroom.

[00:35:13] Every classroom is going to empty out.

[00:35:15] And what's going to happen?

[00:35:16] They're going to pile up at that exit.

[00:35:18] They're going to trample each other and they're going to get hurt.

[00:35:21] And that's why these litigations are coming up for this kind of training.

[00:35:25] So to do that for little kids where they're hearing horrible sounds, they're going to see stuff they shouldn't be seeing.

[00:35:32] Stay in the classroom.

[00:35:33] Lock down.

[00:35:34] Be safe.

[00:35:35] The good guys are coming, especially if you've got armed school resource officers.

[00:35:39] They're right there.

[00:35:40] They are trained to go.

[00:35:42] They're not waiting for anyone.

[00:35:44] They're not waiting for five, six, seven people.

[00:35:46] If it's just one, they're going.

[00:35:48] They're trained.

[00:35:49] I was trained for that.

[00:35:50] You go.

[00:35:51] You go.

[00:35:52] You don't wait for anybody.

[00:35:53] And even the police.

[00:35:54] I mean, I'm fortunate here in my county.

[00:35:56] It's between three to five minutes when they respond.

[00:35:58] I understand the rule areas.

[00:36:01] They're like, oh, well, the closest guy is 10 minutes away.

[00:36:03] All right.

[00:36:04] You either get yourself school resource officers or you drill.

[00:36:08] You drill much more often on what's going on because I know I bring up Uvaldi and that's the reason I wrote the book because it made me really angry.

[00:36:15] But Uvaldi had other problems besides that police response.

[00:36:18] There was a door lock that was broken.

[00:36:20] The security guard.

[00:36:21] I don't know where he went.

[00:36:21] Someone stepped out for a smoke.

[00:36:23] So there were issues there before that police arrived.

[00:36:26] So you want to make sure your school has layers of security to slow that shooter down.

[00:36:32] So what are the odds if it's like I mentioned before that the building needs changed?

[00:36:38] I mean, the odds are they're not going to change it.

[00:36:40] Correct.

[00:36:41] I mean, because of cost.

[00:36:42] Well, again, I like the idea of talking about cost, about technology, cameras, metal detectors, all this whiz bang technology, these apps that they have out.

[00:36:52] Stay away from that stuff.

[00:36:53] It's the human element.

[00:36:54] You want to at least get your teachers trained, your administrators trained as soon as possible and get them to drill more often.

[00:37:00] Now, the cost.

[00:37:02] It really is not going to cost you that much money.

[00:37:04] Again, you keep that front entrance as the only entrance to enter during the school time.

[00:37:09] The lobby area, you could easily get that shut down.

[00:37:12] I mean, we had to build.

[00:37:13] We used to have countertops that were like four feet high with little swing doors.

[00:37:17] Well, what happens?

[00:37:18] You find out during a drill or during a live event when something happens, well, you got to fix it.

[00:37:22] I had a father came in.

[00:37:24] He was supposed to pick up his son.

[00:37:25] Well, he was divorced from his mom and he wasn't on the list.

[00:37:28] And he got really angry.

[00:37:29] So jumped over the counter.

[00:37:31] He attacked a staffer.

[00:37:32] Wow.

[00:37:33] Went in to get the kid.

[00:37:34] So it's like, okay, we got to fix that.

[00:37:36] So you made the counters higher.

[00:37:38] Had to bring glass down.

[00:37:40] Made it look like a bank, basically.

[00:37:42] So now you can't jump over the counter.

[00:37:44] Right.

[00:37:44] It doesn't cost that much.

[00:37:46] And overall, classroom doors, lock them.

[00:37:50] That's an easy fix.

[00:37:51] They all have locks.

[00:37:52] Keep them locked during the day.

[00:37:54] So just slow them down.

[00:37:56] The fencing, you know, six foot fencing.

[00:37:58] Again, that doesn't cost much.

[00:38:00] Have one entrance.

[00:38:01] All other doors are closed.

[00:38:04] They have to go through the lobby area.

[00:38:05] The only way they're going to get in.

[00:38:07] And then again, the classroom doors are already locked.

[00:38:09] And again, the shooter is not going to shoot out a locked door.

[00:38:13] They're not.

[00:38:13] They're going to move on and look for something easy.

[00:38:15] And if you're a school, I mean, Nashville, again, I point that out.

[00:38:20] They did a heck of a job there.

[00:38:21] I mean, that principal made the mistake of going out and confronting them.

[00:38:24] But they kept, they went into lockdown and they kept all those doors locked.

[00:38:27] And just by happenstance, that individual caught people out in the hallway.

[00:38:31] But the cops, the police made a perfect response and took the individual down.

[00:38:37] So the good guys are coming.

[00:38:39] Just realize that it's going to be horrible.

[00:38:41] You're going to hear stupid, loud things.

[00:38:44] You're not helpless.

[00:38:45] The good guys are coming.

[00:38:46] Just keep yourself safe.

[00:38:47] And that's the number one thing.

[00:38:49] I mentioned that along with school resource officers.

[00:38:51] Keep yourself safe.

[00:38:52] This idea that you're going to go out and talk to this individual with a gun and talk

[00:38:58] them down or talk them out from, they're beyond that.

[00:39:01] They're way beyond that.

[00:39:02] You should have talked to them months ago.

[00:39:04] Their mindset is they're way beyond anything of talking to them.

[00:39:09] Because when you hear about these incidents, everybody who talks about that says that gunman

[00:39:13] had a blank look on their face, no emotion at all.

[00:39:16] And everyone, they're all like that because they're beyond that.

[00:39:19] Right.

[00:39:19] They already figured they're dead.

[00:39:21] They're either going to commit suicide themselves or get shot by police or something.

[00:39:25] I mean, the cruise thing in Parkland was just an odd ball, I think.

[00:39:29] But yeah, this idea, you keep yourself safe.

[00:39:33] Then you can help others.

[00:39:34] I give the metaphor of like when you're in an airplane, that oxygen mask drops down.

[00:39:37] What do they tell you?

[00:39:38] You put the oxygen mask on first.

[00:39:40] Then you can help a child or an elderly individual.

[00:39:43] So you keep yourself safe first.

[00:39:46] Stay in the lockdown.

[00:39:47] Don't be a hero, which you're not a hero if you're going to go out there and get shot.

[00:39:51] Don't do that.

[00:39:52] Just stay in the lockdown.

[00:39:54] You'll be safe.

[00:39:54] And I think a point that you brought up earlier is that parents really need to take ownership

[00:39:59] of this, right?

[00:40:00] Because I didn't know that we have a say as parents or grandparents.

[00:40:04] But first, you need to be informed, like get your book and read your book so you have the

[00:40:08] knowledge.

[00:40:09] But then you need to sit your kids down and talk to them.

[00:40:12] And then you probably need to approach the school board and maybe get a group of parents

[00:40:17] to make a change.

[00:40:18] Yes.

[00:40:19] Talk to your kids.

[00:40:20] And I know it's difficult, especially if you've got a teenager because they're yes or

[00:40:23] no.

[00:40:23] Yes or no answers.

[00:40:25] I got to run upstairs.

[00:40:25] I got to get back on my video.

[00:40:26] I got to talk to my friends.

[00:40:27] I got a video game.

[00:40:28] I got this, that and the other thing.

[00:40:29] No, pin them down.

[00:40:31] Just say, how are they running emergency drills at your school?

[00:40:35] Are you locking down?

[00:40:36] Are they having you run out of the classroom?

[00:40:39] What do they have you doing?

[00:40:40] Are they having you throwing things at a gunman?

[00:40:43] I mean, these are all, again, red flags.

[00:40:45] And I don't care if they're kindergarten up through high school.

[00:40:48] Ask them what's going on.

[00:40:50] And if you disagree and you think it's dangerous that you're having a child of yours throwing

[00:40:56] something at a gunman or running out of a perfectly safe classroom, that's where you

[00:41:00] find out when the school board meetings are.

[00:41:02] A lot of them will have them during the day, but they're at least once or twice a month

[00:41:06] where they have them at night.

[00:41:07] And you can go in front of the school board for three minutes and tell them what's going

[00:41:11] on.

[00:41:11] And again, a group of parents, like you said, is a lot more powerful for this stuff.

[00:41:17] And a lot of this stuff is not brought up because I get it.

[00:41:19] Parents are busy.

[00:41:20] You're working.

[00:41:21] Sometimes working two, three jobs, whatever is going on.

[00:41:23] You don't have time for this.

[00:41:25] Because look, I would think as a parent, I mean, I'm in that space.

[00:41:29] But as a parent, you think, oh, the school's got it.

[00:41:31] You know, they're safe.

[00:41:32] I'm going to drop my kid off.

[00:41:33] Everything's fine.

[00:41:34] You know, the school bus is safe.

[00:41:35] The school's safe.

[00:41:36] Everything's fine.

[00:41:37] And then all of a sudden you hear of a school shooting either next door or the county over

[00:41:41] or the state over.

[00:41:41] You're going, well, heck, they must have done something wrong.

[00:41:44] I don't know what's going on.

[00:41:45] That's when it raises your hackles.

[00:41:47] No, it should raise it all the time.

[00:41:49] Not because you heard of some school shooting.

[00:41:52] This should be happening all the time.

[00:41:53] You should find out from the school.

[00:41:55] How are you running your emergency drills?

[00:41:57] If they're running them the wrong way that you think like, no, this puts my kids in danger.

[00:42:03] Tell them.

[00:42:03] They're going to listen.

[00:42:05] And even if they don't, well, it's got to go in front of the school board.

[00:42:07] Fine, I'll talk to the school board.

[00:42:08] And the school board gives you a pushback.

[00:42:11] Fine, I'll talk to the legislature.

[00:42:12] Talk to your state legislature.

[00:42:14] They have phone numbers.

[00:42:15] They have emails.

[00:42:16] Easily get on there and say, this is what's happening at my school.

[00:42:19] I disagree.

[00:42:19] And again, go to that site, safehavensinternational.org.

[00:42:25] They will give you all the research and papers that you need that shows the proper way to drill.

[00:42:30] And it's not run, hide, fight, or Alice.

[00:42:33] That's not the way to go.

[00:42:34] Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Dan, but I would think that your book would have lots of information

[00:42:39] that could help anybody that works in the public, right?

[00:42:42] Because, I mean, you have office settings and like a mall even, I mean, that you could take this information

[00:42:48] and use it to protect yourself in the event of a shooting in your area, right?

[00:42:53] Yeah.

[00:42:54] Yeah, I didn't specify that for businesses or corporations or malls or movie theaters.

[00:42:59] I'm sure you've heard the term situational awareness, where you go into an entrance.

[00:43:05] And when an emergency happens, your brain is thinking, how do I get out of here?

[00:43:09] Will you go back to where you came in?

[00:43:12] When in fact, there could be an exit somewhere else that is easier for you to get out.

[00:43:17] So it's that kind of thing.

[00:43:19] When you go to a restaurant, you go to a restaurant, you come in, you sit down, just check where

[00:43:23] the exits are.

[00:43:23] Because if something happens, where you came in may be blocked, or maybe that's where

[00:43:28] the gunman is.

[00:43:29] So find out where the other exits are.

[00:43:30] It's just something, just look around.

[00:43:32] Just, okay, I'll go through the kitchen if something happens.

[00:43:34] Just again, but I get it.

[00:43:37] When you've got a bunch of kids and they're yelling and screaming and all this other stuff,

[00:43:41] you're not thinking of stuff like that.

[00:43:42] Will you just eat?

[00:43:43] We're going to get out of here.

[00:43:45] So just settle down.

[00:43:47] But just look around.

[00:43:48] And the same thing if you're in a mall or something like that, just realize that, okay,

[00:43:52] if something happens, and you don't have to do this all the time, but if something happens,

[00:43:56] where would I go?

[00:43:57] How would I get out of here?

[00:43:58] And you can play games with that yourself.

[00:44:00] But I didn't write the book for that purpose.

[00:44:03] But in there, again, just something about being aware of what's going on.

[00:44:07] Because as you know, it's not just schools.

[00:44:10] Things are happening at the mall, at nightclubs, at businesses, all this stuff.

[00:44:15] To me, a lot of that is more targeted.

[00:44:18] It's more targeted at bosses and supervisors that these people feel that they've either been

[00:44:23] fired or let go or didn't get their raise or whatever.

[00:44:26] It's a little different than school.

[00:44:28] But yeah, same kind of option, same kind of training.

[00:44:30] Yes.

[00:44:31] Well, is there anything else that we haven't covered that you want to make sure that the

[00:44:35] listeners hear?

[00:44:36] No, a lot of that stuff is opinions.

[00:44:38] I know parents like, I say like, maybe parents don't like the idea of their kids having a

[00:44:43] cell phone.

[00:44:43] But to me, the cell phones are the bane of teachers and school systems.

[00:44:48] Same thing with social media.

[00:44:50] It just is not good for learning.

[00:44:53] Does it have something to do with safety?

[00:44:55] Yeah.

[00:44:55] Because I've had incidents where I've had bomb threats.

[00:44:58] I've had children that said, oh, there's a gun in the school.

[00:45:01] And then once the police get there, all the rumors start and the texts start and the airdrops

[00:45:05] start where, oh, wait.

[00:45:07] Oh, wow.

[00:45:08] Here.

[00:45:08] Oh, no, there's a gun over there.

[00:45:09] It's like something like out of a cartoon.

[00:45:12] That's a good point because I think a lot of parents think they're making their child

[00:45:16] safer by giving them a phone.

[00:45:18] No.

[00:45:19] You know, because you can call me if something happens.

[00:45:22] That's the thing where they say, well, something happens.

[00:45:24] You can text me saying I love you.

[00:45:26] And, you know, there's a school shooter here or whatever.

[00:45:28] No.

[00:45:29] Again, it really it just makes it more difficult for the police.

[00:45:33] Your learning has just gone downhill.

[00:45:35] I mean, fortunately, European countries, France, Italy, Germany.

[00:45:39] And I think England is going to start a program of no cell phones in schools because they found

[00:45:44] out with the data.

[00:45:46] Kids are focused better without them.

[00:45:48] They learn better without them.

[00:45:49] Their grades go up without them.

[00:45:50] There's really absolutely no reason to have a cell phone with a child in school.

[00:45:55] No reason at all.

[00:45:56] And I'm sure teachers would love it.

[00:45:58] But I don't think it'll ever happen, even though it's funny.

[00:46:01] Usually, the United States is on top of this more so than Europe.

[00:46:03] But what can you do?

[00:46:06] So, yeah.

[00:46:07] But other than that, no.

[00:46:09] Stay away from technology.

[00:46:11] Metal detectors.

[00:46:12] Cameras are good, but you're not going to get cameras that are going to follow an individual

[00:46:15] around.

[00:46:16] These apps that are out there, they're really not.

[00:46:19] Parents need to be concerned about that.

[00:46:21] I used to get emails from these businesses over and over again about they had a certain

[00:46:24] app that would do everything.

[00:46:26] It would call the police.

[00:46:27] It would shut it.

[00:46:28] Shut the doors down.

[00:46:29] It would do this, that and the other thing.

[00:46:30] Wow.

[00:46:30] You've got AI coming out now.

[00:46:32] Maybe 20, 30 years from now, that'll happen where, I don't know, maybe we'll have robots

[00:46:37] respond to all this stuff.

[00:46:38] But right now, stay away from the technology.

[00:46:41] Just get your people trained.

[00:46:43] And again, talk to your kids.

[00:46:46] The main thing is, especially for parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, find out what's

[00:46:50] going on.

[00:46:51] I mean, I know a lot of these kids will just blow it off because you're a kid.

[00:46:55] You don't want to think about it.

[00:46:55] I don't want, I wouldn't want to think about that if I was a kid.

[00:46:58] Right.

[00:46:58] A lot of times they'll tell you, I don't want these officers in here because that

[00:47:02] uniform is oppressive.

[00:47:03] I feel, you know, microaggression.

[00:47:05] And it's usually parents that push this idea.

[00:47:07] No, no.

[00:47:08] We want those police.

[00:47:09] We want those special resource officers in there.

[00:47:11] So these kids, I don't want them to think about that.

[00:47:14] And I get it.

[00:47:15] Oh, we have to drill again.

[00:47:16] Oh, no.

[00:47:17] Well, that's just the way the world is.

[00:47:19] Right.

[00:47:19] It's not going the other way.

[00:47:21] We're not going to go the other way where it's like, oh, everybody's not perfectly safe.

[00:47:25] Again, it's not my lane.

[00:47:26] There's a lot of mental health issues in this country and a lot with children and kids.

[00:47:30] And again, I, it's just my opinion, but social media is just the wrong thing for kids to be

[00:47:36] involved in at all.

[00:47:38] But with that being said, it's just something again, that you talk to your kids, find out

[00:47:43] what's going on and find out if they're drilling correctly.

[00:47:46] And it's in my book.

[00:47:47] You can find me on Facebook.

[00:47:50] First five minutes.

[00:47:50] I'm on LinkedIn under my name.

[00:47:53] And if you have any questions, you can email me whatever you need.

[00:47:56] I'd be glad to help.

[00:47:57] Well, thank you so much for writing this book, because I think it's an extremely important

[00:48:02] subject that, like I said, I don't think a lot of parents realize, you know, you just

[00:48:06] assume that the school is taking care of it and you can't make that assumption anymore.

[00:48:11] You have to get knowledge.

[00:48:13] You have to sit down and talk to your kids and you have to try to help your school make

[00:48:17] it safer.

[00:48:18] Yeah.

[00:48:18] So thank you for doing this.

[00:48:20] No, I thank you for having me on.

[00:48:22] It's just a message, Michelle, and awareness.

[00:48:24] I don't get to go to conferences and stuff.

[00:48:27] I don't have the money for that.

[00:48:28] And I don't have the street cred, I guess.

[00:48:30] So I do as many podcasts as I can to just get that message out that this is something

[00:48:35] that is concerning, especially when I find out that millions of dollars are being paid

[00:48:41] from school systems with this wrong type of training.

[00:48:44] So yeah, that's horrifying.

[00:48:46] Just aware of what's going on.

[00:48:48] Well, thank you so much.

[00:48:50] Greatly appreciate it.

[00:48:51] Thank you.

[00:48:52] Thanks for having me on.

[00:48:53] I appreciate it.

[00:48:53] It was nice meeting you.

[00:48:54] You too.

[00:48:55] Bye-bye.

[00:48:56] Bye-bye.

[00:48:57] As we wrap up today's episode, I hope Dan sharing his knowledge, experience, and wisdom

[00:49:02] has helped you in some way.

[00:49:03] It seems like run, hide, fight, and Alice are not the best approaches for school safety.

[00:49:10] Shelter in place seems much safer, but find out for yourself.

[00:49:14] Go to safehavensinternational.com as a resource to find out what should be done.

[00:49:19] One thing that stood out to me is how important it is for parents to become aware of what your kids' school procedures are regarding safety measures and emergency drills.

[00:49:29] And if you feel something is not right, get involved to get it corrected.

[00:49:34] Parents need to be informed and become the advocates for their kids.

[00:49:38] It's paramount.

[00:49:39] We can't assume that the schools are doing the right thing.

[00:49:43] And I don't mean to offend anybody, but you just can't.

[00:49:46] Your children's lives are too important.

[00:49:48] So if you can't get traction making the change you feel is needed, escalate your concerns to the school board.

[00:49:55] And if that isn't effective, escalate to your state legislators.

[00:49:59] But keep pushing for change.

[00:50:01] What stood out to you?

[00:50:03] I would love to hear from you.

[00:50:09] Thank you for listening to The Beauty and the Mess.

[00:50:11] If you enjoyed what you heard, please share it with a friend.

[00:50:14] And if you haven't already, please subscribe, rate, and review this podcast on your favorite pod player.

[00:50:20] If you have any questions or comments, any topic ideas you would like to hear about,

[00:50:24] or you think you would be a great guest on the show, you can reach me directly at thebeautyandthemess.com.

[00:50:30] Thanks for listening.