Ep. 55 The Journey of Alzheimer's and Dementia Advocacy and Insights with Marianne Sciucco

[00:00:03] I'm Michele Simms and this is The Beauty in the Mess, a community where people who crave

[00:00:11] a shift in mindset, personal growth and connection to like-minded people come together to start

[00:00:16] rewriting their stories.

[00:00:17] Through engaging, honest and insightful conversations, the show will help you embrace

[00:00:22] the mess to recognize the meanings and the lessons it holds and discover its hidden

[00:00:27] treasures to help you start making a mindset shift.

[00:00:30] Let's listen, learn and reclaim who we were meant to be.

[00:00:35] Hi friend.

[00:00:35] Welcome to The Beauty in the Mess.

[00:00:37] For this episode, I'm very excited to welcome Mary Ann Schuchko to the show.

[00:00:42] Mary Ann is not a nurse who writes but a writer who happens to be a nurse.

[00:00:46] Using her skills and experience to create stories that bear witness to the humanity

[00:00:50] in all of us.

[00:00:51] With more than 20 years experience as a staff nurse and case manager, she's worked

[00:00:56] with countless families dealing with issues related to aging, elder care, Alzheimer's

[00:01:02] and nursing home placement.

[00:01:04] In 2002, she put the two together and began writing about the intricate lives of people

[00:01:08] struggling with health and family issues.

[00:01:11] She published her debut novel Blue Hydrangeas and Alzheimer's Love Story in 2013

[00:01:16] to glowing reviews.

[00:01:18] This book led her to become a co-founder and director of All's Authors, the global

[00:01:24] writing about Alzheimer's and dementia from personal experience to light the way for

[00:01:28] others.

[00:01:29] She is a podcast producer and host for Untangling Alzheimer's and Dementia and All's

[00:01:34] Authors podcast.

[00:01:36] So please visit allsauthors.com,

[00:01:39] ALZAUTHORS.com

[00:01:43] for more information.

[00:01:45] Hi, I'm Michelle Sims, your host.

[00:01:47] I'm just a regular person who along with my family have had our share of messes

[00:01:51] that we too have had to overcome.

[00:01:53] Along the way, I got curious as to how others get through their messes and even triumph

[00:01:58] over them.

[00:01:59] Maybe there's a better way, a faster way.

[00:02:02] Maybe we can accelerate our journeys by learning from someone else.

[00:02:05] That started my pursuit.

[00:02:07] I think we can all learn from each other through the sharing of our experiences,

[00:02:10] lessons and knowledge.

[00:02:12] So join me for episode 55 of The Beauty and the Mess called The Journey of

[00:02:17] Alzheimer's and Dementia Advocacy and Insights with Mary Ann Schuchko.

[00:02:22] So without further ado, let's dive right into today's conversation.

[00:02:27] Hi Mary Ann, welcome to The Beauty and the Mess.

[00:02:29] I'm very glad to have you with me today.

[00:02:31] Hi Michelle.

[00:02:31] Thanks so much for inviting me.

[00:02:33] It's a privilege.

[00:02:34] You're very welcome.

[00:02:36] Now, I know you're a nurse and an author and a podcaster among many other

[00:02:41] things.

[00:02:43] But before we get into talking about all that, I was wondering if you would

[00:02:47] tell us some of your background story.

[00:02:48] Like what led you down this path of is it okay if I say that you're a

[00:02:54] huge advocate for Alzheimer's and dementia patients and their care?

[00:03:00] Yeah, I am.

[00:03:01] I had an aunt, my mother's sister was very special to us.

[00:03:05] She was 15 years older than my mom.

[00:03:08] So she was more like our grandmother and we didn't have grandparents.

[00:03:12] My both of my sets of grandparents had passed away long before my

[00:03:17] brothers and I were born.

[00:03:19] So we never had the privilege of having a grandmother, but we did have

[00:03:23] Gilda.

[00:03:23] Her name was Gilda and she was always someone that was loving and

[00:03:29] kind and generous and always happy to see you.

[00:03:33] I mean she filled the role beautifully and she started experiencing

[00:03:38] Alzheimer's late in the 80s, 1980s.

[00:03:41] And I was around my 20s around that time and I didn't really know

[00:03:45] anything about it.

[00:03:46] Why would I?

[00:03:47] And I just remember my cousin struggling with caring for her at home

[00:03:52] and her behaviors and her personality changes really what struck me

[00:03:59] and she ended up in a long-term care home for people who had

[00:04:03] dementia and things like that and didn't know us anymore and with

[00:04:07] it away and became nonverbal and the whole thing.

[00:04:12] And my mother was devastated over this seeing that happen to her

[00:04:16] sister and then my dad's sister his older sister who was also

[00:04:21] 14-15 years older than him.

[00:04:24] Both my parents were like at the tail end of their families and

[00:04:28] she had Alzheimer's as well.

[00:04:30] I wasn't as close to her as to my mother's sister, but I

[00:04:33] observed some of what was going on with that and it was

[00:04:36] confusing and scary and I really didn't know a lot about it.

[00:04:41] Then I decided I would go into nursing because I was trying

[00:04:46] to get a job doing newspaper reporting.

[00:04:49] I wanted to be a writer.

[00:04:50] I wanted to do stuff like that and it was really hard.

[00:04:53] I just couldn't get a job.

[00:04:54] It was in the late 1980s.

[00:04:58] I had tried a few different things that weren't working out for

[00:05:01] me.

[00:05:01] I was like a lot of young people today kind of just struggling

[00:05:04] and a little lost and at the time there was a nursing shortage

[00:05:10] across the United States and that was never a career that

[00:05:13] I had ever thought of.

[00:05:15] In fact, when I was in high school, I went to meet my guidance

[00:05:18] counselor at senior year to talk about what I was going to

[00:05:21] do next.

[00:05:23] He said, well, you can be a nurse or a teacher or a

[00:05:27] secretary and I said, well, I don't want to do those

[00:05:30] things.

[00:05:30] I want to be a writer.

[00:05:31] He said, I think you'll be a good nurse.

[00:05:33] Oh, wow.

[00:05:34] So he must have been right, right?

[00:05:37] So back in the day that was in the 80s.

[00:05:39] I mean even that wasn't that long ago and young women

[00:05:42] didn't have a lot of opportunities presented to them.

[00:05:44] So I decided let me see if I might like nursing.

[00:05:49] I knew people that were in the worked in the field.

[00:05:51] So I wasn't sure.

[00:05:52] The only thing I knew is that I knew I liked people.

[00:05:55] I wanted to work in a world where we care for others.

[00:05:58] That was always part of my thing.

[00:06:00] I wasn't into like the money-making part of work.

[00:06:03] I wasn't didn't want to be the person responsible for

[00:06:05] bringing in the money so I could do that, but I was

[00:06:09] afraid because I was not a good science student and I

[00:06:12] didn't know how I would figure the whole science piece

[00:06:15] out in nursing school.

[00:06:16] That was very daunting to me.

[00:06:19] So I ended up getting a job in a long-term care

[00:06:22] facility just to try it out.

[00:06:24] Let me see what's going on and let me see what

[00:06:27] the nurses do and do I think I can do it before

[00:06:30] I make a commitment to going back to school because

[00:06:33] by this point I already had a bachelor's degree and

[00:06:36] it wasn't really helping.

[00:06:37] So I ended up working at this nursing facility.

[00:06:40] It was in outside of Boston in a very affluent community

[00:06:44] and I discovered that I really loved working with

[00:06:47] the dementia patients.

[00:06:48] Oh, wow.

[00:06:49] I had a soft spot for them and maybe it was

[00:06:52] there because my aunt's I don't know, but they

[00:06:55] were a lot of fun and I would work anytime

[00:06:59] they would want me to go up there and work

[00:07:01] to that unit.

[00:07:02] I always volunteered and then I ended up

[00:07:03] working there permanently.

[00:07:05] So that was great.

[00:07:06] And I did that for about a year or so and I

[00:07:08] had met my husband prior to that.

[00:07:12] He lived in New York and I lived in outside

[00:07:15] of Boston.

[00:07:16] Oh, wow.

[00:07:17] So we were having a long distance romance during

[00:07:21] all of this transition for me like trying

[00:07:23] to figure out my next move my career.

[00:07:24] I'm like 29 years old at this time.

[00:07:28] So he and I decided we were going to get

[00:07:30] married and get together and I would move

[00:07:33] to New York and when I did I went to nursing

[00:07:35] school and I started working as a nurse.

[00:07:38] I didn't do writing anymore.

[00:07:40] I didn't have time but then when you're

[00:07:43] a writer, you always have that itch.

[00:07:45] You know, you always get something brewing

[00:07:47] in the back of your mind whether it's a

[00:07:48] story or something you want to research

[00:07:50] and write about and I was like that and

[00:07:53] at my job they had started a newsletter

[00:07:55] for the nursing department one of the

[00:07:57] nursing managers and I saw it and I had

[00:08:00] done a lot of newspaper work in my past.

[00:08:03] I did have a lot of experience with

[00:08:05] that not only with writing but with

[00:08:06] production.

[00:08:08] So I looked at it and I told her I could

[00:08:10] make this better for you.

[00:08:12] So she's like go ahead please help me.

[00:08:14] I can't handle it.

[00:08:16] So I took it over and I did it for a

[00:08:18] couple of years.

[00:08:18] We put out like four issues a year.

[00:08:20] So that was me getting back into

[00:08:21] writing and then I started writing

[00:08:24] little pieces and getting them published

[00:08:26] in journals and things like that about

[00:08:28] nursing and then I realized that I

[00:08:31] wanted to write a book.

[00:08:33] So I started a novel and it was

[00:08:38] inspired by a couple that I met in my

[00:08:40] work.

[00:08:40] It was in a rehab unit because I was

[00:08:43] a hospital case manager at this point.

[00:08:45] I had moved up moved along in the

[00:08:47] ranks and I would I was afloat like

[00:08:51] I was always the one that would be

[00:08:53] willing to go anywhere and I wasn't

[00:08:56] not the type of person that always

[00:08:57] wanted to work in the same spot every

[00:08:59] day.

[00:08:59] So whenever they needed to move somebody

[00:09:01] because somebody was I loved or

[00:09:02] whatever.

[00:09:04] I would be willing to go so I happened

[00:09:06] to be on the rehab unit one day and

[00:09:09] I met this couple who she had

[00:09:11] Alzheimer's and he did not.

[00:09:14] The husband was very frail, but he

[00:09:15] was pretty much mentally intact,

[00:09:17] but his wife was not at all and

[00:09:21] she was there because she had

[00:09:22] fallen and broken her pelvis and

[00:09:24] now she was going to be going to

[00:09:26] a nursing home for further

[00:09:28] rehabilitation like a temporary stay.

[00:09:32] And the funny thing about this couple

[00:09:33] is they had driven all the way up

[00:09:35] from the state of Florida to New

[00:09:37] York without any mishap.

[00:09:39] Don't ask me how they did this

[00:09:41] once they did and then she

[00:09:43] fell after they got home.

[00:09:45] So when I went in to see them

[00:09:46] and I didn't have to go see

[00:09:47] them that was like the funny

[00:09:48] thing about is I didn't really

[00:09:50] have to go visit these people

[00:09:51] because they were scheduled to leave

[00:09:53] the next day and the person I

[00:09:55] was covering for they had completed

[00:09:57] all the arrangements and you know,

[00:09:59] there was no need for me to go

[00:10:01] in but I was making rounds.

[00:10:02] So I walked by the room and I saw

[00:10:04] them there with their son and

[00:10:06] I just decided to go in and say

[00:10:07] hello and go over the plan again.

[00:10:10] And I did and the son said to

[00:10:11] me tomorrow, I would like to

[00:10:14] drive my mom and dad to where

[00:10:17] they're going and is that okay?

[00:10:20] And I was like sure because

[00:10:21] she has to get there one way

[00:10:22] or another so if he was

[00:10:24] willing to take her that was fine.

[00:10:25] We didn't have to arrange

[00:10:26] transportation.

[00:10:27] I said, yeah, that's absolutely

[00:10:28] fine if you want to do that.

[00:10:30] So I left them and all I kept

[00:10:32] thinking about for the rest

[00:10:33] of the day into the evening was

[00:10:35] gee, I wonder what would happen

[00:10:36] if they left here the hospital

[00:10:40] without their son.

[00:10:42] Where would they go?

[00:10:43] What would they do?

[00:10:44] So I ruminated on that

[00:10:46] for a while and the next

[00:10:47] thing I know I had come up

[00:10:48] with this whole novel this

[00:10:50] whole story of this couple

[00:10:53] leaving the facility with

[00:10:56] all good intention the husband

[00:10:58] planning to bring his wife

[00:11:00] to a nursing home where she's

[00:11:01] going to stay for a while to

[00:11:02] get rehab against his better

[00:11:05] judgment in his wishes because

[00:11:07] he did not want this at all.

[00:11:09] And then when they get there

[00:11:11] something occurs and he

[00:11:13] decides he's not ready for

[00:11:15] this and we're not doing

[00:11:16] this and he takes off and

[00:11:18] they go off on their little

[00:11:19] this little journey of their

[00:11:21] own to revisit their past

[00:11:24] and reclaim their future.

[00:11:26] Wow.

[00:11:27] And that's what Blue High

[00:11:28] Drainages is all about.

[00:11:29] So it's written about Jack

[00:11:32] and Sarah.

[00:11:33] They are innkeepers.

[00:11:35] They're retired.

[00:11:36] She has Alzheimer's.

[00:11:37] They've had to close their

[00:11:38] business.

[00:11:39] They live in a beautiful bed

[00:11:40] and breakfast on Cape Cod

[00:11:42] and I won't tell you

[00:11:44] anymore because then it

[00:11:45] will spoil it.

[00:11:45] Sounds like a beautiful

[00:11:46] story though.

[00:11:48] It is a beautiful story.

[00:11:49] That's what people say.

[00:11:50] It's beautiful and it's

[00:11:51] poignant.

[00:11:53] So but it has a happy

[00:11:55] year ending.

[00:11:55] It's not all doom and gloom.

[00:11:57] That's good.

[00:11:59] I'm sure it's a love story

[00:12:00] too.

[00:12:01] It's a love story.

[00:12:02] That's what it is.

[00:12:03] It's a love story.

[00:12:05] His commitment to her and

[00:12:06] I wrote it from the

[00:12:07] male caregiver point of

[00:12:09] view instead of the

[00:12:10] female because I had met

[00:12:12] so many men like him

[00:12:13] in my work and everybody

[00:12:15] thinks caregiver they

[00:12:16] think of a woman,

[00:12:17] a mother,

[00:12:18] a woman caring for her

[00:12:19] children,

[00:12:20] a woman caring for aging

[00:12:22] people,

[00:12:22] ill people,

[00:12:23] whatever.

[00:12:24] Right.

[00:12:24] And don't always think

[00:12:25] of the man as being

[00:12:27] the caregiver.

[00:12:28] So I wanted to pay them

[00:12:30] some due that they

[00:12:31] earned to see him,

[00:12:33] you know,

[00:12:33] the loving role of the

[00:12:34] husband doing everything

[00:12:36] he can for his wife.

[00:12:38] So that's how that

[00:12:39] came to be.

[00:12:41] That's an amazing story.

[00:12:43] Can I ask you like what

[00:12:44] the difference between

[00:12:45] dementia and Alzheimer's

[00:12:47] is because for a lot

[00:12:49] of us who aren't living

[00:12:50] it every day at this

[00:12:52] time,

[00:12:52] I mean it gets confusing

[00:12:53] because they seem so

[00:12:54] similar.

[00:12:55] Yeah, well dementia is

[00:12:57] an umbrella term.

[00:12:58] Okay.

[00:12:59] And there are hundreds

[00:12:59] of types of dementia

[00:13:01] and the most common

[00:13:02] one is Alzheimer's.

[00:13:04] Okay.

[00:13:05] So Alzheimer's disease

[00:13:06] makes up about 70%

[00:13:08] of all dementia cases,

[00:13:10] but people can have

[00:13:11] dementia due to many

[00:13:12] different things.

[00:13:14] Some dementias can

[00:13:15] even be temporary

[00:13:17] and reversible,

[00:13:18] but most of them

[00:13:20] really aren't.

[00:13:21] Is that like due to

[00:13:22] like a surgery and

[00:13:23] anesthetic because

[00:13:24] I've seen that.

[00:13:25] It could be something

[00:13:26] like that.

[00:13:27] It could be like some

[00:13:28] kind of chemical

[00:13:28] imbalance.

[00:13:29] It could be more

[00:13:30] of like a delirium.

[00:13:32] It could be an

[00:13:33] infection.

[00:13:34] It could be a lot

[00:13:34] of different things,

[00:13:35] vitamin imbalance.

[00:13:37] So that's why we

[00:13:38] always encourage people

[00:13:39] if not to just assume

[00:13:41] oh well they have

[00:13:41] dementia and there's

[00:13:42] nothing you can do

[00:13:43] about it.

[00:13:43] Well, there may be

[00:13:44] something to do about

[00:13:45] it.

[00:13:45] I mean there's always

[00:13:46] something you can do

[00:13:46] so to get an

[00:13:48] accurate diagnosis to

[00:13:49] go to your doctor

[00:13:51] and make sure

[00:13:52] that you get what

[00:13:54] is required in the

[00:13:55] diagnosis like that.

[00:13:57] So that would be like

[00:13:59] blood work.

[00:14:00] They do some

[00:14:00] blood work,

[00:14:01] your physical exam

[00:14:02] and they may do

[00:14:02] some imaging.

[00:14:03] There would be a

[00:14:04] neurological exam.

[00:14:05] There may be a

[00:14:06] psychiatric exam.

[00:14:08] There's a lot

[00:14:08] that goes into it.

[00:14:09] You could get a

[00:14:10] PET scan,

[00:14:11] which is a different

[00:14:12] type of brain imaging

[00:14:14] and a lot of times

[00:14:15] it's a process

[00:14:16] of elimination

[00:14:17] and ruling out

[00:14:18] certain things

[00:14:19] and you have a

[00:14:20] diagnosis of

[00:14:21] some type of

[00:14:21] dementia or the

[00:14:22] Alzheimer's disease,

[00:14:24] then it would be

[00:14:25] important for a

[00:14:26] family because

[00:14:27] it's a family illness,

[00:14:29] the family to

[00:14:31] come up with some

[00:14:31] kind of plan

[00:14:33] for the course of

[00:14:33] this condition.

[00:14:35] And we don't

[00:14:36] know how long it's

[00:14:36] going to last.

[00:14:37] It can last.

[00:14:39] My stepfather

[00:14:39] after his diagnosis

[00:14:41] passed like 18

[00:14:42] months,

[00:14:43] but some people

[00:14:44] can go on for

[00:14:45] 18 years or

[00:14:46] even longer decades

[00:14:48] in various stages

[00:14:49] of dementia before

[00:14:50] they eventually

[00:14:51] pass away.

[00:14:53] Well, they might

[00:14:53] pass away from

[00:14:54] something else in

[00:14:55] an interim,

[00:14:55] which

[00:14:56] my personal

[00:14:57] opinion is

[00:14:58] a good thing,

[00:14:59] but

[00:15:00] there's controversy

[00:15:00] on that too.

[00:15:01] But anyway,

[00:15:02] yeah,

[00:15:02] if anybody

[00:15:03] is suspecting

[00:15:04] something's not

[00:15:05] right with mom

[00:15:05] or dad

[00:15:06] or my husband

[00:15:07] or my wife

[00:15:08] or anybody

[00:15:09] to start asking

[00:15:10] questions

[00:15:11] and start

[00:15:11] getting

[00:15:12] information

[00:15:13] because

[00:15:14] this is a

[00:15:15] long,

[00:15:15] drawn-out

[00:15:16] journey.

[00:15:18] It's full

[00:15:18] of a lot of

[00:15:20] pain,

[00:15:21] physical,

[00:15:22] mental,

[00:15:22] emotional pain,

[00:15:24] especially for

[00:15:24] the caregiver.

[00:15:26] And this

[00:15:26] things that you

[00:15:27] can do

[00:15:27] and strategies

[00:15:28] to you

[00:15:30] involve,

[00:15:30] it has a

[00:15:30] steep learning

[00:15:31] curve.

[00:15:32] That's part

[00:15:33] of the problem

[00:15:34] is people

[00:15:35] don't know

[00:15:35] anything about

[00:15:36] it.

[00:15:36] And then when

[00:15:36] it hits them,

[00:15:37] they need to

[00:15:37] know everything

[00:15:38] that they

[00:15:38] need to

[00:15:38] know like

[00:15:39] right now.

[00:15:40] Right.

[00:15:40] And then they've

[00:15:41] got all this

[00:15:41] other stuff going

[00:15:42] on and

[00:15:42] they don't

[00:15:43] have time

[00:15:43] to learn.

[00:15:44] Yeah,

[00:15:44] you don't

[00:15:44] have time

[00:15:45] to take

[00:15:45] a training

[00:15:46] course.

[00:15:46] So it's

[00:15:50] like what is

[00:15:51] in my

[00:15:51] community?

[00:15:52] If this

[00:15:52] were to

[00:15:53] befall

[00:15:53] my family,

[00:15:54] especially if

[00:15:54] you know

[00:15:55] that somebody

[00:15:56] in the

[00:15:56] family already

[00:15:56] had it,

[00:15:57] like a

[00:15:57] grandparent

[00:15:58] or somebody

[00:15:59] and it's

[00:15:59] in your

[00:16:00] genes,

[00:16:00] then you

[00:16:01] might

[00:16:01] say,

[00:16:02] you know,

[00:16:02] where

[00:16:03] would I

[00:16:03] get

[00:16:04] resources?

[00:16:05] I have

[00:16:06] the Alzheimer's

[00:16:06] Association

[00:16:07] here in

[00:16:07] this area.

[00:16:08] Is there

[00:16:08] an office

[00:16:09] for the

[00:16:09] aging?

[00:16:10] What type

[00:16:10] of services

[00:16:11] are available

[00:16:11] for

[00:16:11] elders?

[00:16:12] Do they

[00:16:12] have

[00:16:12] daycare?

[00:16:14] Which

[00:16:14] might sound

[00:16:15] demeaning

[00:16:16] for the

[00:16:16] person,

[00:16:17] but it's

[00:16:17] not like

[00:16:18] daycare

[00:16:18] like a

[00:16:18] child's

[00:16:19] daycare

[00:16:20] in the

[00:16:20] sense that

[00:16:21] it's a

[00:16:21] safe place

[00:16:22] for people

[00:16:22] to go

[00:16:23] and

[00:16:23] to engage

[00:16:24] and to

[00:16:25] be social,

[00:16:25] have

[00:16:26] social life

[00:16:26] and stuff

[00:16:27] like that

[00:16:27] and give

[00:16:28] the

[00:16:28] caregiver

[00:16:30] time

[00:16:31] away

[00:16:31] so that they

[00:16:32] can do

[00:16:32] what they

[00:16:32] need to

[00:16:32] do,

[00:16:33] whether

[00:16:33] it's a

[00:16:33] job

[00:16:34] or

[00:16:34] personal

[00:16:35] care

[00:16:35] or

[00:16:35] whatever.

[00:16:36] So

[00:16:37] there's

[00:16:37] a lot

[00:16:37] to do

[00:16:38] and a

[00:16:38] lot

[00:16:38] to know.

[00:16:39] So do

[00:16:39] the patients

[00:16:40] realize

[00:16:41] that something

[00:16:41] is wrong?

[00:16:42] Absolutely.

[00:16:44] And so

[00:16:44] then that

[00:16:44] creates

[00:16:45] fear

[00:16:45] because they

[00:16:46] don't

[00:16:46] understand

[00:16:47] what's

[00:16:47] happening?

[00:16:48] Yeah,

[00:16:48] it starts

[00:16:49] off

[00:16:49] gradually.

[00:16:50] So

[00:16:51] there may

[00:16:51] be

[00:16:51] like

[00:16:52] periods

[00:16:52] of

[00:16:53] forgetfulness.

[00:16:54] A lot

[00:16:55] of forgetfulness

[00:16:55] is normal

[00:16:56] as we

[00:16:56] age.

[00:16:57] We all

[00:16:57] do it.

[00:16:58] We can't

[00:16:58] find our

[00:16:58] keys.

[00:16:59] We go

[00:16:59] in a

[00:16:59] room.

[00:17:00] We forget

[00:17:00] why did

[00:17:00] I come

[00:17:01] in here?

[00:17:01] Open the

[00:17:01] fridge.

[00:17:02] Why am

[00:17:02] I looking

[00:17:03] in the

[00:17:03] fridge?

[00:17:04] That's

[00:17:04] all

[00:17:05] normal.

[00:17:06] Because

[00:17:06] we're

[00:17:06] all

[00:17:06] distracted,

[00:17:07] but it's

[00:17:07] when

[00:17:08] you

[00:17:08] like

[00:17:09] you're

[00:17:09] looking

[00:17:09] in the

[00:17:10] fridge,

[00:17:10] but you

[00:17:10] don't

[00:17:11] know

[00:17:11] what

[00:17:11] you're

[00:17:12] looking

[00:17:12] at in

[00:17:12] the

[00:17:12] fridge,

[00:17:13] for

[00:17:13] example.

[00:17:14] And

[00:17:15] a lot of

[00:17:16] times

[00:17:16] in many

[00:17:17] of the

[00:17:17] stories that

[00:17:18] I've read

[00:17:18] through

[00:17:19] all

[00:17:19] authors

[00:17:20] is a

[00:17:21] lot of

[00:17:21] times

[00:17:21] people

[00:17:22] get

[00:17:22] lost

[00:17:22] and

[00:17:23] that's

[00:17:23] the

[00:17:24] first

[00:17:24] inkling.

[00:17:24] Something's

[00:17:25] not

[00:17:26] right

[00:17:26] because

[00:17:27] they

[00:17:27] get

[00:17:28] lost

[00:17:28] going

[00:17:29] somewhere

[00:17:29] that

[00:17:29] they

[00:17:30] go

[00:17:30] all

[00:17:30] the

[00:17:31] time.

[00:17:31] You

[00:17:32] know,

[00:17:32] just

[00:17:32] like

[00:17:33] they

[00:17:33] are

[00:17:33] in a

[00:17:33] strange

[00:17:34] place.

[00:17:34] They

[00:17:34] can't

[00:17:34] get

[00:17:35] home.

[00:17:35] They go

[00:17:35] to work

[00:17:36] and they

[00:17:36] can't

[00:17:37] find

[00:17:37] their

[00:17:37] way

[00:17:38] home.

[00:17:38] People

[00:17:38] make

[00:17:38] mistakes

[00:17:39] at work.

[00:17:39] A lot

[00:17:39] of times

[00:17:46] they

[00:17:46] may

[00:17:47] get

[00:17:47] fired.

[00:17:47] Wow.

[00:17:48] They

[00:17:48] may

[00:17:49] have

[00:17:50] personality

[00:17:51] changes

[00:17:51] and

[00:17:52] act in

[00:17:52] ways that

[00:17:53] are very

[00:17:53] disagreeable

[00:17:54] and unacceptable,

[00:17:55] whether

[00:17:56] it's

[00:17:56] to other

[00:17:56] family

[00:17:57] members.

[00:17:57] So

[00:17:58] there's

[00:17:58] like a lot

[00:17:59] of different

[00:17:59] little things

[00:18:00] going on

[00:18:00] and I

[00:18:01] think a

[00:18:01] lot of

[00:18:01] people

[00:18:02] when it

[00:18:02] starts

[00:18:03] they

[00:18:03] don't

[00:18:03] people

[00:18:04] don't

[00:18:04] want

[00:18:04] to

[00:18:04] acknowledge

[00:18:05] it.

[00:18:05] They

[00:18:05] are

[00:18:05] in

[00:18:05] denial.

[00:18:06] Both

[00:18:07] the

[00:18:08] person

[00:18:08] affected

[00:18:09] and then

[00:18:09] the person

[00:18:10] around people

[00:18:10] around them.

[00:18:11] So my

[00:18:11] stepfather

[00:18:12] was

[00:18:12] going

[00:18:13] through his

[00:18:13] thing

[00:18:14] and he was

[00:18:15] an acting

[00:18:15] right,

[00:18:16] basically,

[00:18:16] is how I like to

[00:18:17] put it.

[00:18:18] He just

[00:18:18] wasn't

[00:18:18] acting right.

[00:18:19] He didn't

[00:18:19] always

[00:18:20] act

[00:18:20] right

[00:18:20] anyway.

[00:18:21] So we

[00:18:21] just

[00:18:21] figured,

[00:18:22] oh,

[00:18:23] he's

[00:18:23] being

[00:18:24] himself

[00:18:24] times

[00:18:24] 10.

[00:18:25] He's

[00:18:25] just

[00:18:26] trying

[00:18:26] to make

[00:18:27] trouble

[00:18:27] and

[00:18:27] trying

[00:18:28] to be

[00:18:29] a

[00:18:29] jerk

[00:18:29] because he

[00:18:30] would

[00:18:30] think he

[00:18:30] was

[00:18:30] being

[00:18:31] funny

[00:18:31] and do

[00:18:32] stupid

[00:18:32] things

[00:18:32] that

[00:18:33] and a

[00:18:33] lot of

[00:18:33] times

[00:18:34] they

[00:18:34] would

[00:18:34] be

[00:18:34] things

[00:18:35] that

[00:18:35] were

[00:18:35] very

[00:18:35] hurtful

[00:18:36] to

[00:18:36] other

[00:18:36] people.

[00:18:37] Oh,

[00:18:37] wow.

[00:18:38] And then

[00:18:38] he'd

[00:18:39] say,

[00:18:39] well,

[00:18:39] I'm

[00:18:40] only

[00:18:40] kidding.

[00:18:41] And after

[00:18:41] a while,

[00:18:42] it was

[00:18:42] kind of

[00:18:42] like,

[00:18:42] I don't

[00:18:43] really

[00:18:43] think

[00:18:43] you're

[00:18:44] kidding

[00:18:44] because

[00:18:44] you

[00:18:45] know

[00:18:46] better

[00:18:46] and

[00:18:46] why

[00:18:47] are

[00:18:47] you

[00:18:47] doing

[00:18:48] these

[00:18:48] things

[00:18:48] and

[00:18:49] acting

[00:18:49] this

[00:18:49] way.

[00:18:50] So

[00:18:50] you

[00:18:51] know,

[00:18:51] it's

[00:18:52] a very

[00:18:52] good

[00:18:52] example

[00:18:53] because we

[00:18:53] were

[00:18:53] all

[00:18:53] in

[00:18:54] denial

[00:18:54] because

[00:18:54] it's

[00:18:55] comfortable

[00:18:55] to be

[00:18:55] in

[00:18:55] denial

[00:18:56] because

[00:18:57] what

[00:18:57] happens

[00:18:58] once

[00:18:59] that

[00:19:00] diagnosis

[00:19:00] is

[00:19:01] made

[00:19:01] or the

[00:19:01] suspicions

[00:19:02] are

[00:19:02] raised,

[00:19:03] now you

[00:19:03] have

[00:19:03] to do

[00:19:03] something

[00:19:04] about

[00:19:05] the

[00:19:05] thing

[00:19:06] that

[00:19:06] you

[00:19:07] are

[00:19:07] about

[00:19:08] to

[00:19:08] experience

[00:19:09] a lot

[00:19:09] of

[00:19:10] change.

[00:19:10] Every

[00:19:11] aspect

[00:19:11] of your

[00:19:12] life

[00:19:12] is

[00:19:13] going to

[00:19:13] be

[00:19:14] affected

[00:19:14] by

[00:19:15] some

[00:19:15] kind

[00:19:16] of

[00:19:16] change.

[00:19:17] So

[00:19:17] people

[00:19:18] prefer

[00:19:18] not

[00:19:19] to

[00:19:19] think

[00:19:20] about

[00:19:20] that or

[00:19:21] get

[00:19:21] involved

[00:19:22] in

[00:19:22] that,

[00:19:23] so they

[00:19:23] want to

[00:19:24] pretend

[00:19:24] everything

[00:19:25] is

[00:19:25] okay and

[00:19:26] it's

[00:19:26] not

[00:19:27] okay.

[00:19:27] I can

[00:19:28] actually

[00:19:28] get

[00:19:29] involved

[00:19:29] in

[00:19:30] that.

[00:19:30] So

[00:19:31] they

[00:19:31] want to

[00:19:32] pretend

[00:19:32] everything

[00:19:33] is

[00:19:33] okay.

[00:19:34] You can

[00:19:34] actually

[00:19:35] get very

[00:19:36] dangerous I'm

[00:19:36] sure.

[00:19:37] Oh,

[00:19:37] yeah.

[00:19:38] It's

[00:19:38] very

[00:19:39] dangerous,

[00:19:39] yeah.

[00:19:40] My

[00:19:40] stepfather,

[00:19:41] I remember

[00:19:42] when after we

[00:19:43] got the

[00:19:44] diagnosis,

[00:19:44] and I

[00:19:45] would stay

[00:19:45] there,

[00:19:46] and I

[00:19:46] knew he was mad

[00:19:47] at me,

[00:19:48] because I

[00:19:49] was the

[00:19:49] catalyst for

[00:19:50] the

[00:19:51] change

[00:19:51] that was

[00:19:52] happening

[00:19:52] to him

[00:19:53] in his

[00:19:53] life.

[00:19:54] Oh,

[00:19:54] okay.

[00:19:55] He

[00:19:55] was that

[00:19:56] aware.

[00:19:56] I was the

[00:19:57] one that

[00:19:57] brought

[00:19:58] him to

[00:19:58] the

[00:19:59] doctor.

[00:19:59] So like taking

[00:20:00] that driver's

[00:20:04] the car. Well, we kept his license. My brother disabled his car. Yeah. That's how we got

[00:20:10] around that. My brother would just say he just did something to it so he wouldn't start

[00:20:14] it. And he was happy not to drive though. He was happy not to drive. But I remember

[00:20:20] at night when I would stay with them because I lived like 250 miles away and I would

[00:20:25] visit with them and stay. And we went those last times he was at the house when I

[00:20:30] was there. He'd be up at the night. He used to get up at night and sleep all day.

[00:20:34] So I'd hear him in the middle of the night maybe getting something to eat and watching

[00:20:39] TV. And I was afraid that he would come into my room and maybe hit me or hurt me

[00:20:45] somehow because I knew that he knew. Wow. He couldn't say it, but I knew he knew

[00:20:50] that I was the one that was kind of like making the trouble. I mean, you know,

[00:20:54] I wasn't making any trouble. I was trying to help my mom. Right. You know,

[00:20:59] trying to help them figure out what was going on here because things were

[00:21:02] deteriorating. But I was afraid of him. So luckily nothing like that ever

[00:21:08] happened. But there is always a threat of some kind of violence like

[00:21:14] that or the person's going to hurt themselves. Something terrible is going

[00:21:17] to happen to them. People wander out in a snowstorm. They manage to get

[00:21:22] out of the house and they end up freezing to death in the front yard.

[00:21:25] People drive. They get in their car and they drive and they're hundreds of

[00:21:30] miles away before they get found. It's very dangerous.

[00:21:33] I heard you mention it's something to be thinking of, especially if you've

[00:21:37] had a grandparent or somebody that's had this. So is it definitely

[00:21:41] hereditary or can it be hereditary but it can come from other sources as

[00:21:46] well? What do we know? It depends on the type of dementia,

[00:21:51] whether or not it's hereditary. There are genes for Alzheimer's that

[00:21:55] we know about. So some people will opt to get tested to see if they

[00:21:59] have that gene and it puts them at a higher risk. And then some people,

[00:22:04] they don't want to know or they don't really feel that it would be

[00:22:06] useful. So they don't take that step. But no guarantee that you

[00:22:11] would get it or that you wouldn't get it. Right. But how important do

[00:22:14] you feel like diet is? Or do you think diet makes a difference at all?

[00:22:21] Yeah. Well, diet is important on every level, but especially when it

[00:22:26] comes to this because you're feeding your brain. So the current

[00:22:30] thinking is that anything that you do for your heart, because we

[00:22:37] know a lot about heart disease and how to maintain a healthy heart.

[00:22:41] Right. And people do that. I mean, they're accepting of it and they

[00:22:44] adopt all of these different behaviors, exercise, lowering

[00:22:47] cholesterol, less salt, managing blood pressure, eating a balanced

[00:22:52] diet, staying away from processed foods, eating a lot of fresh

[00:22:56] foods, fruits, vegetables, cutting back on meat, cutting back on

[00:23:00] saturated fat, all of that stuff. People are pretty good at trying

[00:23:04] to follow those instructions. I mean, it took decades. But

[00:23:08] anything that you do for your heart, you're also doing for your

[00:23:11] brain because the heart is pumping the blood into your circulatory

[00:23:15] system and into your brain, feeding your brain. So we just

[00:23:19] recommend that people who are concerned about brain health

[00:23:22] follow up the heart healthy diet. That won't hurt. That will

[00:23:25] help. Try to stay as healthy as you possibly can. And it's

[00:23:29] important to get a lot of exercise, stay physically active,

[00:23:34] and also to stay socially active. And we have a tendency,

[00:23:40] and especially now following the pandemic, people tend to be a

[00:23:43] little more isolated. People have cut back on their social

[00:23:46] activities and maybe not have resumed them since the

[00:23:50] pandemic. And there's a lot of loneliness. And that is a

[00:23:54] contributing factor. Social engagement has been found,

[00:23:58] especially amongst elders, to be like life-saving.

[00:24:04] What about puzzles? Is that true if you do puzzles or mind

[00:24:08] games, that it helps the brain, kind of exercises the brain in

[00:24:11] a way?

[00:24:12] Yeah, it does. And learning new things. So I mentioned going

[00:24:16] into the podcasting business kicking and screaming. I mean,

[00:24:19] I didn't want to have to learn new things. That's how I

[00:24:21] felt. I was like, I don't know, pushing 60. And I was

[00:24:24] like, well, I think I learned enough in my life. I don't

[00:24:27] need to learn new things. I can just coast and go to the

[00:24:30] rest of my life on the knowledge base that I already

[00:24:32] have. And as you know, putting together a podcast is a lot of

[00:24:36] work. It has a lot of moving parts. It can be very

[00:24:39] frustrating at times. All the behind the scenes work,

[00:24:42] talking to people. That's easy. Setting up the

[00:24:44] interview. That's simple. But it's working those audio

[00:24:48] files and trying to remove the things that you don't

[00:24:52] want. You know, I edit my stuff pretty tightly.

[00:24:55] I do too. Yeah, the dog barking.

[00:24:58] Yeah, I don't like the dog barking. I don't like when

[00:25:02] the cuckoo clock ticks off every 15 minutes. I had that

[00:25:05] experience and there was no way to fix it. I was so

[00:25:08] upset. Things like that. I don't like when people talk

[00:25:11] over each other. So I'll iron that out. I do too.

[00:25:15] It's very intense. But I like to think about the

[00:25:17] listener on the other end having a seamless experience

[00:25:21] and not having their attention interrupted because

[00:25:24] something they heard something like a cuckoo clock

[00:25:26] ticking all of a sudden. Cuckoo! Or little dings that

[00:25:30] come out of your computer. Little notification dings.

[00:25:32] Or the dog barks. One day I was doing an interview

[00:25:36] and the city was doing a fire parade and they had

[00:25:40] the fire engines going by my house because it was

[00:25:43] for Halloween. I was like, what a racket that

[00:25:47] was. I had to stop the whole thing. Tell the

[00:25:49] person who was in Alabama. Can we hold? Because

[00:25:54] I got the fire department out here making a racket.

[00:25:57] I don't want that. I'm not going to be able to edit

[00:25:59] that out. So I was like, I don't want to learn

[00:26:02] new things. But it was the best thing that I could

[00:26:05] do really because it was just keeping my brain

[00:26:08] greased and oiled and functioning really well.

[00:26:11] So I think that was a good thing. So people

[00:26:14] should. You're never too old to learn new

[00:26:16] things. I guess that's what they say. And so

[00:26:19] finding new activities is a good thing because

[00:26:23] then you'll meet new people and you can have a

[00:26:25] nice little schedule where you might go. It

[00:26:29] doesn't have to be a physical thing but it can

[00:26:31] be. People take up running, swimming, things

[00:26:34] like that. Even golf. But you can play mahjong.

[00:26:38] You can join a book club. There are knitting

[00:26:40] clubs going around. I've seen that too. People

[00:26:42] get together and they knit and share projects

[00:26:44] and share patterns and yarns and stuff. And

[00:26:46] so that's fun. And there's a lot of things

[00:26:49] that you can do. So that will help work your

[00:26:53] brain through new activities and new ways of

[00:26:56] thinking but also socially and making new

[00:26:59] connections with people.

[00:27:00] Yeah, that's very true. Kind of two birds with

[00:27:04] one stone.

[00:27:06] Yeah, get a lot out of that one.

[00:27:09] How much do you feel that stress plays a

[00:27:12] role or do we know yet? Because I know a lot

[00:27:15] of people who function under chronic stress

[00:27:19] Yes. Well, stress is bad all around whether it's

[00:27:24] for your heart health, your brain health, your

[00:27:26] mental health.

[00:27:29] In our society we kind of like to promote

[00:27:33] stress as much as we talk about stress

[00:27:35] management and stuff like that. We tend to

[00:27:38] want to live these lifestyles that are

[00:27:41] stressful. And I always say people make their

[00:27:43] own stress and sometimes people might not agree

[00:27:46] with me. But I think that we sometimes take

[00:27:49] on more than we can handle. We don't want to

[00:27:52] admit we can't handle it. So we just pile it

[00:27:54] on and pile it on and pile it on. And then

[00:27:56] the next thing you know, we're like

[00:27:57] drowning underneath all of these obligations

[00:28:00] that we took on and responsibilities and

[00:28:03] things that we would like to do or want

[00:28:04] to do. Maybe we don't do. We feel compelled

[00:28:09] to do them. So it's important to just take

[00:28:11] a step back and give yourself some breathing

[00:28:14] space. Self-care is a huge thing in dementia

[00:28:17] caregiving. So we encourage people to even

[00:28:21] take just 15 minutes a day for themselves.

[00:28:25] Go for a walk, go read a book or a poem

[00:28:29] or listen to a podcast or listen to some

[00:28:30] music but extract yourself from your

[00:28:33] situation just enough to kind of recharge

[00:28:36] because you'll just you'll burn out. And

[00:28:39] the science has already shown those effects

[00:28:42] that stress has on the physical body and

[00:28:45] how it can lead to illness. So it's not

[00:28:50] always good to be on the go all the

[00:28:52] time losing out on sleep. People are so

[00:28:56] proud. Well, I only sleep four hours a

[00:28:59] night and they think it's great. It's

[00:29:01] like well that's really bad. You

[00:29:02] should be sleeping eight hours a night.

[00:29:04] There's a reason for that. That's

[00:29:06] what helps clear your brain out of all

[00:29:08] of this gunk that it accumulates. And a

[00:29:12] very brain healthy activity is sleep so

[00:29:15] that your brain stays healthy. We want

[00:29:17] to do that so when you deprive yourself

[00:29:20] of sleep you're not really helping

[00:29:21] yourself. But I know that people

[00:29:24] will be proud of the fact that they

[00:29:26] don't sleep. Yeah, that's very true.

[00:29:28] I mean like it's a super human feet

[00:29:31] or something but I was wondering

[00:29:33] because I've heard and you being a

[00:29:35] nurse you could probably answer this

[00:29:37] better than anyone but as people get

[00:29:39] older they tend to have more trouble

[00:29:41] sleeping. And I don't know if it's the

[00:29:43] hormonal changes or what exactly

[00:29:46] causes it but it seems like insomnia

[00:29:49] and all kinds of sleep problems. So

[00:29:52] if you're not the one causing the

[00:29:54] sleep problems for yourself

[00:29:56] how do you try to fix that? Some of

[00:29:58] the recommendations are to have like

[00:30:00] a sleep schedule where you're going

[00:30:02] to go to sleep at night say at 11

[00:30:05] o'clock, 9 o'clock whatever time until

[00:30:08] four, five, six, whatever it is and try

[00:30:10] to make it consistent. Right. And not

[00:30:13] like be all over the place because

[00:30:15] that's not helpful. And if you think

[00:30:17] about it when babies are born they

[00:30:19] don't know how to sleep.

[00:30:21] We have to teach our babies how to

[00:30:22] sleep and how they get through the

[00:30:24] night

[00:30:25] when they get to be a certain age.

[00:30:27] Right. So once their bellies are

[00:30:29] stay full we'll stay full and they

[00:30:31] won't be hungry

[00:30:32] in the night after a few months of

[00:30:35] life then

[00:30:36] they we start getting them, teaching

[00:30:38] them how to settle down so that they

[00:30:39] will sleep through the night because

[00:30:40] that's what we want. Everybody needs to

[00:30:42] get that

[00:30:43] chunk of sleep time. So it's the same

[00:30:45] thing you know when you're older

[00:30:47] too.

[00:30:47] We develop bad habits and then we need

[00:30:50] to learn relearn them again.

[00:30:51] So having a set time for sleep

[00:30:56] going to bed at the same time every

[00:30:58] night you can prepare yourself

[00:31:00] an hour or so before by maybe taking

[00:31:02] a warm shower or a bath.

[00:31:05] Maybe some stretching no aerobic

[00:31:07] activity or anything like that that's

[00:31:09] going to get you charged up.

[00:31:11] Cut back on caffeine nothing after

[00:31:13] like 3 p.m.

[00:31:14] Stay away from coffee tea even if

[00:31:17] that bothers you. Soda anything that

[00:31:19] has a lot of caffeine in it even

[00:31:21] chocolate because I know like if I

[00:31:22] have

[00:31:22] a real good chocolatey dessert in the

[00:31:25] evening then that'll keep me up at

[00:31:26] night.

[00:31:27] Alcohol that'll keep you up at night

[00:31:30] and keep your room cool. You don't

[00:31:32] want to sleep in a room that's too

[00:31:34] hot

[00:31:35] and make sure that you're wearing

[00:31:36] appropriate clothing and that would

[00:31:37] help.

[00:31:38] And then if you get up there's no

[00:31:40] sense in just laying there and being

[00:31:42] miserable.

[00:31:42] I always say get up for a little

[00:31:44] while and do something. You can go

[00:31:46] in another room

[00:31:47] you can read you can turn the tv on

[00:31:49] watch something that's not going to

[00:31:51] be

[00:31:51] too stressful or exciting or get you

[00:31:54] going.

[00:31:55] Listen to music you could play cards

[00:31:57] by yourself quietly.

[00:31:59] If you know somebody else that's up at

[00:32:01] night you can communicate with them

[00:32:03] for an hour or so and then you'll be

[00:32:04] ready to go back to bed.

[00:32:06] So sometimes I'll do that and I'll

[00:32:08] even just fall asleep on the couch

[00:32:10] and stay there

[00:32:11] for the rest of the time. If you're

[00:32:13] going to be waking all the time then

[00:32:15] you don't have to stay in bed and be

[00:32:16] awake.

[00:32:17] I always think get up and do

[00:32:19] something or

[00:32:20] if you're worried about something maybe

[00:32:22] you can figure it out or take care

[00:32:23] of it before

[00:32:24] and then you'll be able to sleep

[00:32:26] better. And don't go to bed hungry

[00:32:29] that's another thing. If you tend to

[00:32:31] get hungry at night you might want to

[00:32:32] have a bedtime snack.

[00:32:34] You could have a glass of milk, a warm

[00:32:36] milk, you could have crackers,

[00:32:37] something simple like that, a yogurt

[00:32:40] that would be helpful.

[00:32:41] There's always sleep aids some are

[00:32:43] natural you could try those you could

[00:32:45] ask your doctor for a prescription

[00:32:47] although a lot of the sleep aids

[00:32:49] come with side effects and things

[00:32:51] that you might not want but

[00:32:52] I found them to be helpful to

[00:32:54] rebuild a new habit so you would

[00:32:56] take

[00:32:56] something for like a week or so and

[00:32:59] kind of taper off of it

[00:33:00] and your body would get used to

[00:33:02] trying to sleep again.

[00:33:04] Keep your room dark no no blue screens.

[00:33:07] Yeah I was thinking that when you

[00:33:08] were saying you could do something I

[00:33:10] thought hopefully not on your phone

[00:33:12] because

[00:33:12] I've heard that stimulates your brain.

[00:33:15] Yeah well I'm guilty of doing that.

[00:33:17] I would be too.

[00:33:19] But I would get up like a mini

[00:33:21] dink my husband would be looking

[00:33:22] for where were you?

[00:33:23] I'd be up reading you know go

[00:33:26] another room we'll go downstairs

[00:33:27] turn on television.

[00:33:29] That's kind of just retraining the

[00:33:31] brain and getting in that habit.

[00:33:33] And you can you know you can sleep

[00:33:35] in the daytime if you're tired

[00:33:37] it's not a sin or against the law

[00:33:39] because I know a lot of people they

[00:33:41] don't so happy that you know proud

[00:33:43] to say that oh I don't take a nap

[00:33:44] well it's nothing wrong with taking

[00:33:45] a nap you're not going to sleep

[00:33:47] for hours but even like a 20

[00:33:48] minute cat nap maybe 30 minutes at

[00:33:50] the most

[00:33:51] then you're good to go for the

[00:33:52] rest of the day and it won't

[00:33:53] interrupt

[00:33:54] you at night.

[00:33:56] Yeah take a nap I love to take a

[00:33:58] nap so.

[00:33:59] I love sleep but I don't get enough

[00:34:01] I know that.

[00:34:02] Nobody gets enough most people don't

[00:34:04] I started trying to make a point

[00:34:05] of getting more sleep in the last

[00:34:07] few months and it's made a big

[00:34:09] difference.

[00:34:10] It's very hard to try to back

[00:34:12] your schedule up even I keep trying

[00:34:14] to like move it back at an hour

[00:34:16] half hour just to get a little bit

[00:34:19] more sleep but it's

[00:34:20] we get so ingrained in our routines

[00:34:22] it's very hard to do without

[00:34:24] constantly staying on yourself about

[00:34:27] it.

[00:34:28] There's so much to do.

[00:34:30] There is really is.

[00:34:33] So tell us about the group that

[00:34:35] you've created I think this is

[00:34:36] quite phenomenal.

[00:34:38] Thank you yeah it is it's kind of

[00:34:41] like this crazy thing that

[00:34:42] happened I had published my book

[00:34:44] and it was really hard to get

[00:34:46] anybody pay attention to a story

[00:34:49] about Alzheimer's.

[00:34:52] Had a lot of stigma there's a lot

[00:34:53] of taboo.

[00:34:55] I was really anxious to try to make

[00:34:57] it as successful as I could so

[00:35:00] I had belonged to a group of

[00:35:02] primarily women women authors

[00:35:05] is called Clean Indie Reads and

[00:35:08] was formed by this one woman as

[00:35:10] a way for authors to help each

[00:35:11] other authors of like books

[00:35:15] similar genre right to help

[00:35:17] each other get promotion

[00:35:19] by promoting each other.

[00:35:21] So we would do the

[00:35:23] retweeting and shares of

[00:35:25] Facebook posts and things like

[00:35:26] that for each other and feature

[00:35:29] each other on our blogs and in

[00:35:31] our newsletters and websites

[00:35:33] and stuff and do group

[00:35:36] promotions book promotions and

[00:35:38] things like that so I was

[00:35:39] involved with them for about a

[00:35:40] year or so and then one day

[00:35:41] I dawned on me gee I wonder if

[00:35:43] I could get people who had

[00:35:45] written books about Alzheimer's

[00:35:46] and dementia to do the same

[00:35:48] thing.

[00:35:49] Maybe we could help each

[00:35:50] other so I knew some people

[00:35:52] who had written that type of

[00:35:53] book so I reach out to them

[00:35:55] and five there were five of us

[00:35:57] the first time we decided to do a

[00:35:59] one month promotion back in 2015

[00:36:02] and we did just that we shared

[00:36:04] each other's books on social

[00:36:05] media on our blogs and things

[00:36:07] like that for a month it was

[00:36:09] June Alzheimer's month and then

[00:36:12] when it was over there were

[00:36:13] three of us who we discovered

[00:36:15] we really liked each other

[00:36:16] and we liked what we were

[00:36:16] doing so we said why don't we

[00:36:18] keep this going and we'll do

[00:36:19] it again in November which is

[00:36:20] caregiver appreciation month.

[00:36:23] So we did that and then we

[00:36:25] decided again the next year

[00:36:27] let's do it again but let's

[00:36:28] do something bigger.

[00:36:29] Let's get let's start a blog

[00:36:31] and we'll invite other authors

[00:36:34] who write these kind of

[00:36:35] books to write blog posts

[00:36:37] for us and we'll promote

[00:36:38] their blog posts so that was

[00:36:41] 2016 now and there were three

[00:36:44] of us and by the end of the

[00:36:46] first month because we said

[00:36:47] we'll do it Monday to Friday

[00:36:48] for four weeks of June and

[00:36:51] then we'll see what happens

[00:36:53] and we didn't know if we were

[00:36:54] even going to find 20 people

[00:36:56] to write blog posts for us

[00:36:58] but we had more waiting so

[00:37:00] we said well just keep it

[00:37:01] going but we'll do it once

[00:37:03] a week because doing it every

[00:37:04] day five days a week was

[00:37:06] too much so we did it once

[00:37:07] a week and that was in 2016

[00:37:10] now it's 2023 there's 350

[00:37:13] more authors and books.

[00:37:15] It's amazing.

[00:37:16] It's amazing so we just kept

[00:37:18] going and we just keep getting

[00:37:19] more and more we're already

[00:37:20] booked into April of next year

[00:37:22] so we put out a blog post

[00:37:24] with a new book every other

[00:37:26] week it's called All's Authors

[00:37:29] ALZ short for Alzheimer's

[00:37:31] authors.com and we put out

[00:37:34] the blog post every other

[00:37:36] week with a new book

[00:37:37] and sometimes it's not a

[00:37:38] book it might be a blog

[00:37:39] a podcast or a film

[00:37:41] because we're about

[00:37:42] storytelling so these are

[00:37:44] different mediums that people

[00:37:45] use right and then in

[00:37:47] the opposite week we do

[00:37:49] a podcast that's when the

[00:37:50] podcast comes out so we just

[00:37:52] had our 100th podcast a few

[00:37:56] weeks ago.

[00:37:56] Congratulations.

[00:37:58] Yeah thanks so we're real

[00:38:00] excited about that and we do

[00:38:03] virtual events so we have

[00:38:05] assembled this community of

[00:38:07] experts in dementia and

[00:38:09] caregiving so when we want to

[00:38:13] focus on anything in

[00:38:14] particular we have all these

[00:38:15] people that we can draw from

[00:38:16] so we put on a virtual event

[00:38:19] maybe every three or four

[00:38:21] months it's a panel and we

[00:38:23] invite like four or five of

[00:38:24] the authors to come and talk

[00:38:25] about a subject so we did

[00:38:27] one it was on when dad has

[00:38:30] dementia so we people who

[00:38:32] wrote about their dads and we

[00:38:33] did one dementia with

[00:38:35] difficult people and that was

[00:38:37] with people who stepped up to

[00:38:40] the caregiver role for a

[00:38:41] parent who had not been good

[00:38:43] to them in their life

[00:38:45] someone who they had been

[00:38:47] estranged from or had an

[00:38:48] ugly relationship with.

[00:38:51] There's a lot of people like

[00:38:52] that so we did that and then

[00:38:55] we do a panel we had a

[00:38:57] panel we did it actually

[00:38:58] twice in two years everything

[00:39:00] you always wanted to know

[00:39:02] about living with dementia

[00:39:03] and there were five authors

[00:39:05] all of whom have dementia

[00:39:06] and they have written or had

[00:39:08] books written for them that

[00:39:10] are in our collection and

[00:39:12] they were there to talk not

[00:39:14] only to us and to the

[00:39:15] audience about their lives but

[00:39:17] also with each other which

[00:39:18] was the magical thing that

[00:39:20] happened which we weren't

[00:39:21] expecting but to speak with

[00:39:24] each other about what it's

[00:39:25] like to live with dementia

[00:39:27] and then we got back

[00:39:28] together two years later to

[00:39:30] see how have your as your

[00:39:31] life changed in two years

[00:39:33] and it was really very

[00:39:34] encouraging that people that

[00:39:35] sat in and attended that

[00:39:37] program said that they

[00:39:39] learned a lot and that it

[00:39:40] wasn't all doom and gloom and

[00:39:42] people were 10 years past

[00:39:44] their diagnosis and they

[00:39:45] were still very active and

[00:39:47] vital so that was a message

[00:39:50] that we had to get out

[00:39:51] and we've done film screening

[00:39:53] so we just did one for a

[00:39:54] film called keys bags names

[00:39:56] words which was really super

[00:39:58] how we organized it was you

[00:40:00] signed up to get the link

[00:40:02] to watch the movie and then

[00:40:04] you could watch the movie at

[00:40:05] your own leisure so it

[00:40:07] wasn't like you had to show

[00:40:08] up at two o'clock on this

[00:40:09] day to watch this movie you

[00:40:11] just watch it whenever you

[00:40:13] could watch it and then you

[00:40:15] could join us for the film

[00:40:16] discussion at a different time

[00:40:18] so we had that set it up

[00:40:20] that way and that turned

[00:40:21] out to be a very good event

[00:40:23] we had the producer director

[00:40:25] of the film there as well

[00:40:27] as the woman who was the

[00:40:28] catalyst for even making

[00:40:30] this movie they attended our

[00:40:32] discussion and it was

[00:40:33] recorded and then it was

[00:40:35] released on our podcast so

[00:40:37] it'll get even more people

[00:40:39] listening to the podcast

[00:40:40] than even watch the movie

[00:40:42] yeah so the podcast is like

[00:40:44] a math an unbelievable tool

[00:40:47] for us oh i bet and i didn't

[00:40:49] even know that people who

[00:40:51] are living with alzheimer's

[00:40:52] are writing books or with

[00:40:53] dementia i'm sorry that's

[00:40:55] amazing oh yeah yes well some

[00:40:58] of them have alzheimer's two

[00:41:00] of them was a one i mean

[00:41:02] they actually put words to

[00:41:03] paper okay the other three

[00:41:05] had it's right like a ghost

[00:41:08] writer or somebody write it

[00:41:09] with them yeah and they did

[00:41:10] they utilize different methods

[00:41:12] so one is peter berry three

[00:41:15] of them they live in the

[00:41:16] united kingdom actually they

[00:41:17] were the ones that had

[00:41:18] somebody do their book

[00:41:20] his friend wrote the book

[00:41:21] for him and she started

[00:41:23] taking notes because they

[00:41:24] would have profound

[00:41:25] discussions and he would

[00:41:26] give her glimpses into his

[00:41:28] mind and she would document

[00:41:30] it and that's kind of how

[00:41:31] they got started on book one

[00:41:33] and then book two was a

[00:41:34] similar thing but there was

[00:41:35] a lot also a lot of texting

[00:41:37] involves oh wow and then

[00:41:40] wendy mitchell a journalist

[00:41:42] i believe asked her if she

[00:41:44] could write her book and she

[00:41:46] agreed because she had been

[00:41:47] blogging so you can check

[00:41:49] out her blog it's called

[00:41:50] which me and i today and they

[00:41:52] did a lot of their stuff

[00:41:54] through emails okay so she

[00:41:56] would email her like she

[00:41:58] would tell her what she

[00:41:59] would want her to write

[00:42:00] about and then wendy would

[00:42:01] write it send her an email

[00:42:02] and write it and then the

[00:42:04] author would clean it up for

[00:42:05] and do the editing the

[00:42:07] grammar and all that part

[00:42:09] punctuation so yeah and then

[00:42:11] there are others who like

[00:42:13] harris saunders who lives in

[00:42:15] utah she was worked in high

[00:42:18] higher ed so she's kind of

[00:42:20] a very cerebral type of

[00:42:23] personality and she has

[00:42:24] retained her writing skills

[00:42:26] she's just now i think

[00:42:28] starting to falter a bit

[00:42:29] but her writing skills are

[00:42:31] unbelievable she wrote her

[00:42:32] own story wow so yeah and

[00:42:35] they're not the only ones and

[00:42:36] then another phenomenon that

[00:42:38] goes on with some of these

[00:42:40] folks is they discovered that

[00:42:43] they can paint and draw

[00:42:46] and do art and they never

[00:42:47] did it before in their lives

[00:42:50] and so now there's a lot

[00:42:52] of people who are doing

[00:42:54] artwork stuff very good

[00:42:55] high quality stuff which is

[00:42:58] kind of amazing i'd love

[00:43:00] to know more about how that

[00:43:02] function works yeah so

[00:43:05] we have a bunch of people

[00:43:06] we're going to do another panel

[00:43:08] first panel next year is

[00:43:09] going to be dementia and

[00:43:10] the arts and we're going to

[00:43:11] talk about using art as a

[00:43:14] method of communication for

[00:43:15] people who can't communicate

[00:43:17] anymore people who have no

[00:43:18] verbal skills that's one of

[00:43:20] the things that you lose

[00:43:21] with the dementia is the

[00:43:23] ability to communicate

[00:43:25] verbally in a meaningful way

[00:43:27] so yeah so people have been

[00:43:29] using that and another thing

[00:43:31] that people use is legos

[00:43:33] little toy bricks yeah i could

[00:43:36] see that yeah they are used

[00:43:39] to help people with dementia

[00:43:40] express themselves and they

[00:43:42] can build might be a calming

[00:43:44] activity too calming yeah it's

[00:43:47] good i mean there's a lot of

[00:43:48] good stuff going on yeah it

[00:43:50] sounds like it dance is

[00:43:52] another thing music is huge

[00:43:54] especially like to play music

[00:43:56] for people from their youth

[00:43:58] like you know their 20s

[00:44:00] maybe is when a lot of

[00:44:02] people can relate to the music

[00:44:03] they will listen into then

[00:44:05] it helps calm them and

[00:44:07] people who can't even

[00:44:09] haven't spoken in months or

[00:44:11] maybe years will all of a

[00:44:13] sudden start singing a song

[00:44:14] they remember all the words

[00:44:16] you know how that is

[00:44:18] like i'll hear a song

[00:44:19] i'll be like i haven't

[00:44:19] heard this song in 20 years

[00:44:20] but i know all the words

[00:44:22] i'm singing it exactly wow

[00:44:24] isn't that amazing so this

[00:44:26] will kind of connection in

[00:44:27] the brain with the music

[00:44:28] so with the all authors i

[00:44:30] know all of you the 350

[00:44:33] folks are authors but if

[00:44:35] somebody's living through

[00:44:37] dementia or alzheimer's with

[00:44:39] a loved one or even with

[00:44:40] themselves can they sit in

[00:44:43] on your events oh yeah

[00:44:46] no that's who it's for

[00:44:47] yeah so anybody can attend

[00:44:49] it okay i just want to

[00:44:51] make sure yeah yeah so we

[00:44:53] have like two clients and

[00:44:55] the one is the authors so

[00:44:56] we meet the authors and we

[00:44:58] bring them in and we do

[00:44:59] the work and get them and

[00:45:00] then the whole point of

[00:45:02] bringing them there is so

[00:45:03] that the caregivers will

[00:45:05] discover them okay and to

[00:45:07] put their work into the

[00:45:08] hands of the people that

[00:45:10] need to read it so the

[00:45:12] people who are out there

[00:45:13] the readers or the

[00:45:14] caregivers they are welcome

[00:45:16] to the podcast to the

[00:45:17] events the virtual events

[00:45:19] we invite everybody you

[00:45:20] just get the sign up to

[00:45:22] get the link and you can

[00:45:23] come and then you can

[00:45:25] watch it on we sometimes

[00:45:27] put them on youtube and

[00:45:28] then they're always on the

[00:45:29] podcast so you can listen if

[00:45:30] you missed it so you can

[00:45:31] listen to it again and again

[00:45:33] if you want to really study

[00:45:35] yeah if you really want to

[00:45:36] make sure you got the most

[00:45:37] out of it you can continue

[00:45:39] to listen and repeat so

[00:45:42] that's the real primary

[00:45:43] audience is getting the

[00:45:45] books into the hands of

[00:45:46] the caregivers that's awesome

[00:45:48] i love what you're doing

[00:45:49] because i don't think i've

[00:45:50] ever heard of anything like

[00:45:51] this so thank you yeah no

[00:45:55] there isn't anything like

[00:45:56] this it's like the only i

[00:45:58] think the only disease

[00:45:59] that has an organization like

[00:46:02] this to support it a lot of

[00:46:03] organizations have like they

[00:46:06] might have books where that

[00:46:08] they list on their website

[00:46:10] but it's not to the extent

[00:46:12] that of what we go through

[00:46:14] we read the books and we

[00:46:15] get to know the author and

[00:46:17] they are invited to write

[00:46:18] when we take about 60 percent

[00:46:20] of the books that come our

[00:46:21] way we don't even it's not

[00:46:23] like everybody who approaches

[00:46:25] us to be right in our

[00:46:26] collection gets in our

[00:46:28] collection we have to say no

[00:46:30] a lot for various reasons

[00:46:32] wow but quality is one and

[00:46:35] books have to be about

[00:46:36] dementia we get people write

[00:46:38] send us books about

[00:46:39] cancer and stuff

[00:46:41] no we are very narrow

[00:46:42] focus here we don't want

[00:46:44] to get into all these

[00:46:45] other things yeah i think

[00:46:46] i was reading like 50

[00:46:48] million people are currently

[00:46:49] affected by dementia

[00:46:51] in the world is it in the

[00:46:52] world okay yeah so it's a

[00:46:55] huge yeah it's about six

[00:46:58] six and a half million

[00:46:59] americans wow so every

[00:47:01] single one of those people

[00:47:03] has at least one person who

[00:47:05] cares for them right so

[00:47:07] it doubles and then we know

[00:47:09] that's not true we know

[00:47:10] that they have many more

[00:47:12] so it's exponential how many

[00:47:14] people's lives are affected

[00:47:15] by this so can i ask you

[00:47:18] kind of it might be an odd

[00:47:19] question but i'm just curious

[00:47:20] since you've had dementia in

[00:47:22] your family does being around

[00:47:24] it and being so involved

[00:47:27] and knowledgeable about it

[00:47:29] does that make you feel

[00:47:30] better or does it make

[00:47:31] you worry more

[00:47:33] or does it do either you

[00:47:35] know i don't know because

[00:47:37] when my stepfather was

[00:47:39] diagnosed when that came

[00:47:40] about and i knew what i

[00:47:43] knew when i already had

[00:47:44] all those authors going at

[00:47:46] the time i was like anybody

[00:47:49] else and was shell

[00:47:50] shocked and was blindsided

[00:47:52] by the whole thing and

[00:47:53] forgot what to do i was

[00:47:55] in a panic and then

[00:47:57] overwhelmed by it knowing

[00:47:59] that i was the person he

[00:48:01] had designated as his

[00:48:02] health care proxy and all

[00:48:04] that just a year before

[00:48:07] and i one day put my

[00:48:09] nursing cap on and said

[00:48:11] what would you do if he

[00:48:12] was your patient okay i know

[00:48:15] now i know what i'm gonna

[00:48:16] do i'm gonna do this this

[00:48:17] this this write it all

[00:48:18] down and put out the plan

[00:48:20] because i couldn't think

[00:48:21] about it as the daughter

[00:48:23] because it was too

[00:48:25] close to home and too

[00:48:26] painful so i was worried

[00:48:29] about him obviously but

[00:48:31] i was more concerned

[00:48:32] about my mom she was

[00:48:34] much older than him and

[00:48:36] she was not well either

[00:48:38] so there was a lot of

[00:48:39] concerns there and i just

[00:48:40] wanted her life to remain

[00:48:42] as normal as it possibly

[00:48:44] could right with all of

[00:48:46] this going on and him

[00:48:47] not being there anymore

[00:48:49] like he was literally

[00:48:51] pretty much dragged out

[00:48:52] of his house one night

[00:48:53] wow and he went willingly

[00:48:56] but it was a battle

[00:48:57] and we had to have him

[00:48:58] admitted to like a

[00:49:00] geriatric behavioral health

[00:49:01] unit for evaluation

[00:49:04] and he was there for five

[00:49:05] weeks before he got

[00:49:06] placed in a nursing facility

[00:49:08] but it was very unpleasant

[00:49:10] so even though i knew

[00:49:12] what i knew it really

[00:49:14] didn't help because

[00:49:15] the personal involvement

[00:49:16] piece of it i don't read

[00:49:18] the books anymore we have

[00:49:19] an acquisitions team

[00:49:20] because of the podcast i said

[00:49:22] i can't read the books anymore

[00:49:24] i don't have time to do both

[00:49:27] so i will occasionally

[00:49:28] do a book but it's by

[00:49:30] my own choice right

[00:49:31] so we brought on other people

[00:49:33] there's like five of us

[00:49:34] that are on the acquisitions

[00:49:36] team but i just got

[00:49:37] to the point where i

[00:49:38] and i think some of

[00:49:39] my partners that have been

[00:49:40] in it longer too

[00:49:41] start to feel that way

[00:49:43] you love to read the

[00:49:43] books and everything

[00:49:44] but after a while you

[00:49:46] just every month it's

[00:49:47] like the book of the month

[00:49:48] isn't it's about all

[00:49:48] side-visom dementia

[00:49:50] and everybody's been on their journey

[00:49:52] and it's behind us now so

[00:49:55] right probably makes you

[00:49:56] relive it a little bit

[00:49:58] that part of it's hard

[00:50:00] yeah you relive it every time

[00:50:02] you know yeah you do

[00:50:02] you say oh this is what

[00:50:04] oh yeah i went through that

[00:50:05] or oh i didn't do it that way

[00:50:07] yeah and along with that

[00:50:09] comes all the emotions

[00:50:11] that you felt yeah

[00:50:14] yes it's very emotional

[00:50:18] well if there's somebody out there

[00:50:19] that wants to connect to you

[00:50:21] or follow you

[00:50:22] or get in touch with you

[00:50:24] what's the best way

[00:50:25] sure yeah well our email address

[00:50:28] is allsauthors at gmail.com

[00:50:30] a-l-z-a-u-t-h-o-r-s

[00:50:34] and we are on facebook

[00:50:36] instagram

[00:50:37] linkedin and twitter

[00:50:39] so you can find us there

[00:50:41] send us a message

[00:50:42] that would be great

[00:50:43] send us an email

[00:50:45] under allsauthors

[00:50:46] yep look up allsauthors

[00:50:47] you'll see it

[00:50:48] okay

[00:50:49] yep you'll find it

[00:50:50] and i'm at mariannechukko at gmail.com

[00:50:53] so you can put that in the show notes maybe

[00:50:55] because of spelling

[00:50:56] and nobody will get it right

[00:50:58] absolutely

[00:50:59] and yeah my website is mariannechukko.com

[00:51:02] my personal website

[00:51:04] okay

[00:51:04] and i'm also on facebook

[00:51:06] twitter

[00:51:07] linkedin

[00:51:07] and threads

[00:51:09] and some instagram button

[00:51:10] i've been starting to use threads lately

[00:51:13] i'm trying to get away from twitter

[00:51:15] so you can find me at all those places

[00:51:18] now you write other books besides

[00:51:20] the alzheimer

[00:51:21] i meant you right

[00:51:22] because i saw where you're

[00:51:24] yeah go ahead and talk about them

[00:51:27] yeah

[00:51:27] i wrote a young adult novel

[00:51:29] it's called swim season

[00:51:31] it's about 600 pages

[00:51:32] and it's based on my daughter's 11 year

[00:51:36] experience as a swimmer

[00:51:37] in club high school and college

[00:51:41] we were really big on all of that

[00:51:43] she was very good at what she did

[00:51:47] and my husband and i were big fans

[00:51:49] and i would sit on those bleachers

[00:51:51] and watch those girls

[00:51:52] and and i was involved in behind the scenes

[00:51:55] and i just wanted to write a story about them

[00:51:59] and so that's my favorite story that i wrote

[00:52:02] even though it hasn't achieved nearly

[00:52:03] what this other book has achieved

[00:52:05] blue hydrangeas

[00:52:07] blue hydrangeas is a beautiful story as well

[00:52:10] but i did write a prequel to that

[00:52:13] it's called christmas at blue hydrangeas

[00:52:15] and it's before the alzheimer's

[00:52:18] and i'm working on another one called

[00:52:20] a wedding at blue hydrangeas

[00:52:22] which is about the wedding of the daughter

[00:52:24] the son and the daughter-in-law

[00:52:26] and that's pre alzheimer's for this couple

[00:52:29] so the reason i did that is

[00:52:30] people really loved the inn

[00:52:32] the inn is called blue hydrangeas

[00:52:35] so i wanted to write more stories

[00:52:37] people asked me more stories about the inn

[00:52:40] and where they could find it

[00:52:42] then they can't find it

[00:52:43] exists but in my head

[00:52:46] so i wrote the two books

[00:52:47] and hopefully one will come out next year

[00:52:49] about the wedding

[00:52:51] that's amazing

[00:52:52] thanks

[00:52:53] well again i thank you for being with us

[00:52:56] and i just love what you're doing

[00:52:58] and i'm going to be sending some people

[00:53:00] your way at least to follow you

[00:53:02] or connect to you or something

[00:53:04] yeah

[00:53:04] oh please do that'd be great

[00:53:08] absolutely

[00:53:09] thank you

[00:53:10] so thank you for all that you're doing

[00:53:12] anytime

[00:53:13] thank you

[00:53:14] as we wrap up today's episode

[00:53:16] i hope maryann sharing her knowledge

[00:53:18] experience and wisdom has helped you in some way

[00:53:21] i think the main takeaway for me was that

[00:53:23] as prevalent as dementia and alzheimer's are becoming

[00:53:26] we all need to know what resources are available

[00:53:29] before something happens to us or a loved one

[00:53:31] and maryann also talked about things you can do

[00:53:34] to lessen your risk

[00:53:35] if you already have a family member that has alzheimer's

[00:53:38] exercise your brain by continuing to learn

[00:53:41] to do new things

[00:53:43] and additionally i would double check the safety risk

[00:53:46] of the medicines you are taking as some can also increase your risk

[00:53:50] and they are now saying that alcohol can also increase risk

[00:53:54] what stood out to you

[00:53:55] i would love to hear from you

[00:53:57] as always i hope this episode helps at least one person

[00:54:00] and with that i hope you have a blessed week my friend

[00:54:07] thank you for listening to the beauty in the mess

[00:54:09] if you enjoyed what you heard

[00:54:11] please share it with a friend

[00:54:12] and if you haven't already please subscribe rate and review this podcast on your favorite pod player

[00:54:18] if you have any questions or comments

[00:54:20] any topic ideas you would like to hear about

[00:54:23] or you think you would be a great guest on the show

[00:54:25] you can reach me directly at the beauty in the mess.com

[00:54:28] thanks for listening